On Leadership: MBA programs need classroom, real world

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette ^ | Tuesday, October 12, 2004 | Albert A. Vicere

[Willie Green]

There are regular cycles in the business world: times of growth, times of retrenchment and times to challenge the value of the MBA degree, which has long been the ticket to a top leadership position in corporate America.

The master's degree in business administration is once again under fire, and Henry Mintzberg, a noted management guru and professor at McGill University, of Montreal, is leading the charge.

His recent book "Managers Not MBAs" reminds us of the old joke that MBA also can stand for "Master of Barely Anything." His sharpest criticism is that business schools have been churning out highly paid MBAs who lack experience, are therefore short on wisdom, and as a result lack leadership capability.

[tanknetter]

The harsh truth is that an MBA from anything but one of the top 5 or 10 schools isn't worth a dime.

I couldn't disagree more. My MBA was from a program that is just inside the top 50, and I know for a fact that it has helped me and my classmates/colleagues move our careers forward in ways that would have been impossible without the degree.

However, the overall premise of the article is correct. Over the several years it took me to get my MBA (did it part-time while working full-time, being a spouse, having a kid, being a homeowner, etc) in the late 1990s and early 00s I saw a dramatic shift away from a student population of mostly older (late 20s and up) students who brought a good deal of "real world" experience into the program and towards kids who were straight out of undergrad (in one of my last classes there was a young girl who celebrated her 21st birthday ... which was just plain wrong. This can be attributed to the Clinton economic decline offering incentives to unsuccessful job-seeking kids to perpetuate their undergraduate lifestyle by continuing their education. Since my MBA program was heavily into the whole "teaming" concept this created problems, as the "old guard" of the program (who actually had a work ethic) ended up carrying the kids. But while often painful (perpetuation of an undergrad lifestyle usually entails procrastinating on work until the last minute, something those of us with lives couldn't afford to do) that was valuable too ... it helped us develop skills for utilizing and motivating GenY slackers ... :-D

What a person takes out of an MBA is directly proportional to what one brings into, and puts into, it. Someone right out of undergrad might be able to make it through a program on academic merit alone, but it's MUCH more rewarding if you are older, more mature, more experienced and are paying for it yourself.

Another important component is knowing your program's professors and selecting them wisely. I was fortunate in that my program, affiliated with a school in a major urban area, had a good number of adjunct faculty who were employed full-time outside of the academic world and therefore brought current knowledge, experiences and practices into the classroom. It also helped that a good number of my classes involved semester-long, real-world consulting-model assignments for real clients at real companies ...

[AggieCPA]

Get over yourself! Someone in a fraternity must have really put you down because you are incredibly irrational about it.

Oh, yes, if fraternities were eliminated all would be well in the world. Get a clue.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

Just curious how you advise young folks trying to make decisions about selecting a major in this ever changing job environment. With outsourcing, offshoring, etc. it looks to be a very tricky process to invest $ and years into a possible profession that's on corp. America's chopping block. My son is starting college next year and he's torn between a couple different choices. I'm in the wireless comm. business and I've seen a big shakeout in that over the past few years.......loss of mgt, engineering, production, etc. Any thoughts?

I don't know what field your son is in, but, he should at least try for a higher level (GS-11 to GS-13) government job. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. In the IT field, the government (Fed and state) are hurting for good IT people, and yes you wont gross over 100k like in the private industry; but the stability and benefits are OK in my book. If you get past some of the usual politics and bureaucracy (which exists to a certain degree in every job), its really not that bad. I've been in software development and network infrastructure in the VA for the last 8 years and its really not a bad job. I see myself as part of the solution (a Freeper with a good work ethic) instead of part of the problem (a dead weight, "typical" gov worker. I also see myself as actually serving our nation's Veterans (i.e. making it more accessible, more cost efficient and more flexible in providing high quality healthcare to veterans) and working to make the most out of taxpayer dollars.

JMHO.

Peruse opm.gov if you're interested. DHS is on a hiring spree as well.

[Alberta's Child]

I had no time for a fraternity -- I was busy working my @ss off to pay my way through school.

[tanknetter]

I don't know what field your son is in, but, he should at least try for a higher level (GS-11 to GS-13) government job.

Or attempt to leverage himself into a government consulting position (slightly less stability and more risk than straight government service, but better pay and more stability/less risk that straight private sector).

My take on majors/concentrations is that people should evaluate what types of positions *can't* be shipped overseas, and then work from there. I saw the I/T outsourcing trend looming back in 1997 or so, when the company I was working for was sponsoring visas for foreign I/T professionals hand-over-fist. It convinced me that being a straight software developer wasn't a good idea. So I went for the MBA and now do I/T-related management consulting (something that really can't be done overseas).

[Xenalyte]

That's funny. ;)

[stainlessbanner]

LOL! I'm going back to school for my NBA.

[Conspiracy Guy]

Emily Latella had nuthin on me!

[Conspiracy Guy]

You got any sperience?

[tdadams]

Anecdotes are generally the exception to the rule rather than the rule, and so aren't very persuasive.

[tanknetter]

That may be the case in general, but in my career an MBA doesn't mean a damn thing as far as paychecks are concerned. An MBA really only has a monetary value in a major corporate environment where an MBA could be the one thing that separates two qualified candidates for a managerial position.

True on the first point: different career fields have different requirements. Your career field is different from mine (I assume), so while having an MBA wouldn't matter in yours, it does matter in mine. It's not a matter of "good" or "better" ... just "different."

I disagree on your latter point: MBAs make a HUGE difference in consulting (where a good chunk of the nation's MBA out put ends up going), where having the degree not only makes you easier to sell to a client and able to bill at a higher rate, but it also is increasingly a prerequisite for client-approval to come on board. This allows an MBA (especially those from "name" schools like Wharton or Kellogg ... or Harvard, where our current President went for his) to command a more lucrative salary and benefits package.

[american spirit]

Thanks for the info.....sounds like you and your ilk are giving taxpayers "value for value" so your insight is welcomed. My son's just getting started with these decisions so right now I'm open to anyone's "voice of experience". I'll check out that site to get some feel about the whole process.

FREEGARDS

[AggieCPA]

Yeah, just as I suspected, you have no knowledge and as I said before, you were apparently "dissed" by someone who WAS in a fraternity.

One final point, you can try to excuse your ludicrous and uninformed hatred of fraternities by your statement you "worked to pay for school" but my reply is - So what?

A lot of us in fraternities worked and paid for school as well, so your statement gives you no moral high ground.

Personally, I enjoyed being in a fraternity but I couldn't care less if someone else was or not. I just don't understand the bile coming from those who were not. I think it's pathetic.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

I saw the I/T outsourcing trend looming back in 1997 or so, when the company I was working for was sponsoring visas for foreign I/T professionals hand-over-fist. It convinced me that being a straight software developer wasn't a good idea. So I went for the MBA and now do I/T-related management consulting (something that really can't be done overseas).

Good move on your part. Being one-dimensional usually means an unemployment line at some point in time. Good thing daddy learned me different. ;)

[Alberta's Child]

I used the fraternity hazing as an example of grossly irresponsible behavior among college students -- because it's a story that has been in the news quite a bit recently. If a bunch of college students in Colorado had decided to drive cars off a cliff or set fire to their dorm rooms just for the hell of it, I would have used those incidents as examples instead.

You might want to try decaf for a while.

[LibFreeOrDie]

The hottest thing in business is not an MBA degree, but a certificate in Project Management. Maybe you won't get a sky-high salary, but there are tons of jobs for PMs, in various industries.

More info:
http://www.pmi.org/info/default.asp

(No, I'm not affilited with the organization - just been looking into it based on the want ads I've been seeing...)

[AggieCPA]

No, I don't believe you. You made hysterical claims, ranted, and tried to distort. I called you on it, you then tried to backtrack. Again, I'm sorry for you.