On Leadership: MBA programs need classroom, real world

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette ^ | Tuesday, October 12, 2004 | Albert A. Vicere

[Willie Green]

There are regular cycles in the business world: times of growth, times of retrenchment and times to challenge the value of the MBA degree, which has long been the ticket to a top leadership position in corporate America.

The master's degree in business administration is once again under fire, and Henry Mintzberg, a noted management guru and professor at McGill University, of Montreal, is leading the charge.

His recent book "Managers Not MBAs" reminds us of the old joke that MBA also can stand for "Master of Barely Anything." His sharpest criticism is that business schools have been churning out highly paid MBAs who lack experience, are therefore short on wisdom, and as a result lack leadership capability.

[skutter]

The Warrington College of Buisness at the University of Florida requires applicants to have two years of on the job experience after their undergrad schooling before being considered for acceptance.

[HassanBenSobar]

The harsh truth is that an MBA from anything but one of the top 5 or 10 schools isn't worth a dime. And the curriculum itself is only one aspect of the value of an MBA. That's why the vast majority of MBA holders seem no more able than Dilbert's pointy-haired boss.

[fooman]

Chicago required 4 years of experience. And we were taught lots of hard stats, econ and accounting.

[tdadams]

His sharpest criticism is that business schools have been churning out highly paid MBAs who lack experience, are therefore short on wisdom, and as a result lack leadership capability.

Isn't this the truth. There are so many people who enroll in business school straight out of undergrad and haven't worked a day in a real business setting. How is anyone supposed to have any competence in business when they have plenty of case studies to cite and book knowledge, but no experience and no business acumen that comes from working and interacting with other people in a business setting.

[Conspiracy Guy]

I think the players in the MBA are way over paid. It has gotten to the point that a family of 4 can't afford to see a basketball game.

[Alberta's Child]

Forget about an MBA program -- I would apply that "two years of experience" standard to undergraduate applicants, too.

I'll bet you wouldn't find too many students drinking themselves to death in fraternity hazing rituals on our college campuses if they had been required to drive a truck or work at Wal-Mart for two years before going to school.

Come to think of it, there wouldn't be too many fraternities, period.

[Windsong]

"There are so many people who enroll in business school straight out of undergrad and haven't worked a day in a real business setting

At 24 yrs of age upon graduating with an MBA...just how WISE can he be?? They shouldnt even ALLOW people into MBA programs unless they're 28, IMHO.

[tdadams]

The harsh truth is that an MBA from anything but one of the top 5 or 10 schools isn't worth a dime.

I would disagree with that a bit. Certainly there are some schools whose diplomas aren't worth the paper they're printed on as far as the potential earnings a graduate will realize in the job market.

But a degree from a business school in the top 25 is still a ticket to a very nice income. I'll use Vanderbilt as an example, since it's a school I'm familiar with. They are ranked somewhere between 15 and 20 in most years. Their b-school graduates average about $80K their first year and signing bonuses from $10k to $15k. That's hardly worthless, even though it's not a top 5 or 10 school.

There are also some second tier schools that can give someone a boost of $15k to $20k in annual income. That's a worthwhile investment.

[dakine]

My wife completed her MBA at age 40...helped in her career progression...

[tdadams]

They shouldnt even ALLOW people into MBA programs unless they're 28, IMHO

I tend to agree. I think 26-29 is probably just the right age to go into b-school.

[Alberta's Child]

I've thought of going to business school myself. A good friend of mine who is an MBA himself has talked me out of it; he says I've learned more on my own than I ever would in an MBA program.

Go figure.

[rebel_yell2]

An MBA is, for the most part, a degree in business administration for folks who majored in liberal arts as undergrads and then went out and worked for a few years. I have taught in several reputable MBA programs and know that it is practically impossible to get admitted without several years of work experience.

Now there ARE a number of schools that simply churn out degrees, but the marketplace knows the difference, and their graduates have a very hard time finding jobs.

Let's not use such a broad brush to denigrate the entire population of MBAs. I've known some very nice, and even some very bright, MBAs.

[TwoWolves]

Alice: "So you're a highly qualified leader because... you're good at math?"

[tdadams]

True, you may have learned as much, but it's a truism that without the degree, it doesn't translate to a fatter paycheck.

[american spirit]

Just curious how you advise young folks trying to make decisions about selecting a major in this ever changing job environment. With outsourcing, offshoring, etc. it looks to be a very tricky process to invest $ and years into a possible profession that's on corp. America's chopping block. My son is starting college next year and he's torn between a couple different choices. I'm in the wireless comm. business and I've seen a big shakeout in that over the past few years.......loss of mgt, engineering, production, etc. Any thoughts?

[mikeus_maximus]

[i]The harsh truth is that an MBA from anything but one of the top 5 or 10 schools isn't worth a dime. [/i]

There are an awful lot of folks who have leveraged their MBA degrees to higher positions that would disagree with you.

The average work experience in my MBA class at a Tier 1 public school is 7 years. The MBA supplements their on-the-job experience. To derive that value, however, it is important to avoid the "touchy-feely" courses and focus on the substantive finance and accounting classes.

[George Smiley]

One of the worst bosses I ever had was a fresh-out-of-business-school-without-a-day-of-real-world-experience , newly minted MBA.

I frequently left work at the end of the day with the urge to kill- similar to the "Screaming Fist of Death" that is frequently referenced in the Dilbert comic strips.

Fortunately he got "promoted" to wreak havoc elsewhere in the organization while I was able to keep my homicidal urges under control.

: ^ )

[proxy_user]

I wouldn't say that.

If you look at the CEOs of the Fortune 500, many have only an undergraduate degree. Yet their paychecks are hardly small. Presumably, they learned as much or more than the MBAs, and applied it.

[Alberta's Child]

That may be the case in general, but in my career an MBA doesn't mean a damn thing as far as paychecks are concerned. An MBA really only has a monetary value in a major corporate environment where an MBA could be the one thing that separates two qualified candidates for a managerial position.

I've always felt that a company with more than 50 employees is too large for me, so the value of the MBA is not in the degree itself, but in the content of the education.