Navy defends sub deal

HALIFAX (CP) - The Canadian navy has gone on the counterattack, staunchly defending the safety of its second-hand submarines despite the tragedy on HMCS Chicoutimi.

The stricken submarine, ravaged by fire, and its crew mourning the loss of one of their officers, was nearing British waters on Saturday under tow by a powerful U.S. navy tug that has speeded up the recovery process.

Officials say they now expect the Chicoutimi to arrive at the port of Faslane in Scotland by Sunday evening, five days after a fire forced the sub to surface and bob helplessly in rough seas off the coast of Ireland.

But at home in Canada and in the United Kingdom, a growing chorus of questions about the safety of the four used British submarines has put military officials on the defensive.

"Let me make this clear: we would never accept just any submarine," Vice-Admiral Bruce MacLean, commander of the Canadian navy, said Saturday at a new conference in Halifax.

"When the Royal Navy offered these subs, our navy concluded rightly that they could meet our requirements. We have never wavered from this perspective."

Under mounting political pressure this week, the federal Liberal government agreed to a parliamentary investigation into the fatal fire. The Canadian military is also planning its own inquiry.

MacLean said he believes criticism about the $900-million submarine purchase has clouded the heroism and hard work of the crew of the Chicoutimi, the final of the four diesel-electric submarines to be handed over to the Canadian navy.

The Chicoutimi was immobilized off the coast of Ireland on Tuesday after two fires damaged electrical cables and left nine crewman suffering from smoke inhalation.

One sailor, Lieut. Chris Saunders, of Halifax, N.S., died of his injuries during his transfer to an Irish hospital, a day after the Canadian navy reported no one was seriously injured in the fires and damage was minimal. Two others taken to hospital are now recovering from their ordeal.

Saunders' body was to be returned to Halifax on Sunday during a ceremony that Prime Minister Paul Martin was expected to attend. A full military funeral is planned for Wednesday.

MacLean said a fire is one of the most terrifying experiences submariners can face.

"If not put out quickly, the risk of losing the submarine and the crew is high. The Chicoutimi crew beat this fire, saved their submarine and, in the submarine service, there can be no higher testimony to the professionalism and the sheer guts of this crew."

MacLean said the four British submarines, decommissioned by the Royal Navy in 1994 and leased to purchase by Canada four years later, are the right vessels for Canada's needs.

He said the Chicoutimi was carefully prepared for the voyage across the Atlantic.

"We would never send submarines and their crew to sea if they are not prepared, checked and tested."

The reactivation process for the Chicoutimi took four years, partly due to the British Defence Ministry plundering the sub for parts and delays caused by problems with hull corrosion.

Overall, the submarine purchase has been plagued by delays, cost overruns and technical glitches that has set it back about three years. The annual cost of operating the four submarines has risen to $121 million from about $97 million.

Some experts have said the length of time the subs were mothballed may have made them vulnerable to electrical problems.

The subs - HMCS Chicoutimi, HMCS Corner Brook, HMCS Victoria and HMCS Windsor - have a history of problems, including cracks in some key valves, plugged turbine pumps, leaks, engine malfunctions, and rust that restricted deep dives.

"Boy, oh boy, oh boy, somebody oughta sell them for tin cans for sardines," Armin Bruning, a top electrical engineer in the United States, said in an interview.

MacLean admitted he would have liked to have had the submarines delivered earlier. But he said each technical glitch in each submarine has been, or is being, addressed.

"There's no doubt, in the context of safety and schedule, these subs have been delayed," he said. "We will never sacrifice safety for schedule."

Although two of the four subs are now undergoing tests and some light duties, they are not yet fully operational.

HMCS Windsor returned from patrols to its home port in Halifax on Saturday. Up to 10 of its engineers will be sent to Scotland to replace Chicoutimi crew members returning to Canada.

The U.S. Navy tug Carolyn Chouest tied its tow lines to the Chicoutimi on Saturday, replacing the smaller British tug, the Anglian Prince, that made slow progress around the stormy northern tip of Ireland on Friday.

"It's larger, faster and safer," Commodore Tyrone Pile, head of the Atlantic fleet, said of the American vessel.

Navy officials said the weather at sea has improved, but the danger is not over for the skeleton crew of about 30 still on board the submarine.

Tugs towing and accompanying the stricken submarine must manoeuvre it through the narrow waters between Scotland and Ireland.

Towing lines have snapped, one crewman had to be rescued after he fell from the deck of the sub into the ocean and, on Saturday, navy officials said an airplane that was to take support staff from Nova Scotia to Scotland was grounded after it hit a bird.

Twenty-one crewmen, including six who suffered smoke inhalation, have been transferred to RFA Argus, a British resupply ship in the area. All are reported in good condition.

"under tow by a powerful U.S. navy tug"

It is amazing how the most evil and dangerous country in the world (according to some Euro's) keeps managing to help other countries.

MacLean said he believes criticism about the $900-million submarine purchase has clouded the heroism and hard work of the crew of the Chicoutimi...

A sure sign that he wants the heroism and hard work of the crew of the Chicoutimi to cloud the criticism of the $900-million purchase....

It used to be that industrial countries (like Canada) used defense policy to boost their domestic industries, like shipbuilding. Why didn't we build subs in Canada? Wouldn't we be better off as a nation by subsidizing submarine construction in the Maritimes rather than the Sydney coal mine fiasco? Isn't there a market for conventional non-European subs? Wouldn't the Americans have been willing to help subsidize production to get those subs to Taiwan?

I'm sure you remember the Arrow. It, or one of its variants, would still be flying today. And Downsview would be more than a concert venue.

Canada is run by a bunch of short sighted, venal, power hungry socialists. And that's why I sign myself........

Yes it is amazing that most Canadians also think that the US is the most dangerous and evil country in the world and yet there we are helping them. God bless the crew of this unfortunate sub, and damn the government that would send young men to sea with faulty equipment.

His problem is that the accident happened at the beginning of a new parliamentary session when the only issue attracting attention was the Speech from the Throne.

The Defence Minister has to face the daily Question Period in the House and the opposition parties are using it to great effect.

The Defence Minister has to face the daily Question Period in the House and the opposition parties are using it to great effect.

Well, I can sympathize. I've been snookered at yard sales myself.

Everyone knows we're second-hand schmoes
Using second-hand tubs and hand-me-down subs
We always ask some other lands to do our job
While we cry poor and whine and moan and play the snob
Everyone knows we're second-hand schmoes
We're the no-money-for-defense Maple Leaf Mob

Leni

MV CAROLYN CHOUEST*

New International Submarine Rescue Coordination Center Opens

*Fwiw, I had the pleasure of replacing the propeller shaft seals on the Carolyn Chouest a few years ago when she was in the shipyard.

Here's the deal as I see it:

Contrary to the images that popular movies provide, you can't just jump into a complex machine like a modern submarine, start 'er up and let 'er rip. Experienced crews with MANY, MANY hours of training on the SPECIFIC equipment and procedures used onboard the SPECIFIC submarine model are required for safe operation.

My guess is that the crew was unfamiliar with some fundamentally important equipment/procedure used by this particular sub, and an accident insued.

I AM NOT BASHING THE CREW. I am merely pointing out that if a crew was "transplanted" from one complex vehicle to another, the similarities would give them a comfort and confidence level, but boy, oh, boy, those differences could really spell trouble.

January 14, 2002 - Arabian Sea -
An Amphibious Readiness Group (ARG) cruises in close arrowhead formation.
From top left:
HMCS CHARLOTTETOWN, a Canadian patrol frigate;
HMCS IROQUOIS, a Canadian destroyer;
USS BATAAN, an American amphibious assault ship;
USS DECATUR, an American guided missile destroyer; and
HMCS HALIFAX, a Canadian patrol frigate.
The United States Navy warships (deployed on Operation ENDURING FREEDOM)
and the Canadian Forces warships (deployed on Operation APOLLO)
are participating in the international campaign against terrorism.
Credit: Cpl Shawn M. Kent

<< The stricken submarine, ravaged by fire, and its crew mourning the loss of one of their officers, was .... under tow by a powerful U.S. navy tug .... >>

Offering a rare glimpse of the real position these past sixty years vis-a-vis our decidedly-unfriendly Euro-centric socialist neighbor's effective military force. The real situation, that is, in which the political gang that calls itself "Canada" -- and the scattered groups of different cultures without a country which that corrupt gang stands over and shakes down for its sustenance -- maintains a few girlyboy sojers to parade in Montreal and Quebec City when the french come to vist -- while we pull their weight!

And a demonstration of why anyone doing business with Limeys aught have his dictionary opened at: "duplicitous."

please do not generalize, Most Canadians...DO NOT... think that. Some socialist pinko polled a few high school kids for this result and now the myth has grown that all Canadians are anti-American.... sheeeeesh. A good number of misguided Canucks opposed unilateral action against Iraq, so do many Americans... move on.

Sorry I missed your post. I see a couple of things wrong with your response. 1) unilateral? As in we went alone into Iraq? Now surely you know that is not true. Yes, we did not have Canada, France nor Germany but we do have goodly coalition. 2) You will have to come with a better defense than some high schoolers taking a pinko socialist's poll to debunk the Anti-Americanism that comes from north of our border. 3)As for moving on, gladly, after being verbally abused and my child assaulted in your benevolent country I have moved on.

I have great affection for Canada. A more polite, hard working, and well meaning bunch you won't find anywhere else.

It is sad to see Canada going down the Socialism route, a road leading only to heartbreak. Sad to watch it happen here in the USA.

Sometimes I wonder about the Canadian men of April 22, 1915 who, under the first gas attack ever, saved the line at Ypres. (Wipers, the lads called that place.) Those were real men. What do they think of what their grand children have built? The butchered Avro Arrow project?

A non-nuclear propulsion submarine project has possibilities. Could lead to dominance is some important technologies. Go for stealth.

Run a modeling level nuclear propulsion program simultaneously. You don't really need testing anymore until very late in the project.

Everyone knows we're second-hand schmoes
Using second-hand tubs and hand-me-down subs
We're always asking other lands to do our job
While we cry poor and moan and play the snob
Everyone knows we're second-hand schmoes
The no-money-for-defense Maple Leaf Rags

Leni

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