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FReeper Canteen ~ Part XIII of War in Ancient India ~ October 5, 2004
A Tribute to Hinduism ^ | October 5, 2004 | LaDivaLoca

Posted on 10/04/2004 7:57:07 PM PDT by LaDivaLoca

 
 

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ANCIENT WARFARE





Part XIII: War in Ancient India

 
The foregoing survey may convince an impartial student of history that the ancient Hindus had evolved precepts on fair fighting which formed a chivalrous code of military honor. 

On the whole, however, it would seem that wars in ancient India were characterized by less violence and savagery than wars elsewhere. There is no recorded instance of such wanton and cold-blooded atrocity as Athens perpetrated against Melos, Corcyra and Mytilene, or the wearers of the Cross against the defenders of the Crescent in 1099 A.D. Such incidents of war as the indiscriminate slaughter of all men of military age or the enslavement of women and children of the conquered state were hardly known.  On the whole, the chiefs were considerate of each other's rights. 

This was also the Kautilyan ideal of dharmavijayan, and the typical Hindu method of creating unity out of diversity in the political sphere. It was a well-established maxim of statecraft that a victor should acquiesce in the continuance of the laws, beliefs and customs of the vanquished peoples, and that instead of seeking to extermination of the defeated dynasties, he should be content with submission and tribute. It is also the reason why some of the princely families in India can boast of an ancestry unequalled by any royal house in Europe. 

It is of paramount importance to remember that in India the social, economic and religious life of the people pursued their course irrespective of the activities of the state. As early as as the 4th century B.C. Megasthenes noticed a peculiar trait of Indian warfare. 

"Whereas among other nations it is usual in the contests of war to ravage the soil, and thus to reduce it to an uncultivated waste, among the Indians, on the contrary, by whom husbandmen, the tillers of the soil, even if battle is raging in the neighborhood, are undisturbed by any sense of danger, for the combatants on either side, in waging the conflict, make carnage of each other but allow those engaged in husbandry to remain quite unmolested. Besides they never ravage an enemy's land with fire nor cut down its trees." The modern "scorched earth" policy was then unknown. 

Professor H. H. Wilson says: "The Hindu laws of war are very chivalrous and humane, and prohibit the slaying of the unarmed, of women, of the old, and of the conquered."

At the very time when a battle was going on, be says, the neighboring cultivators might be seen quietly pursuing their work, - " perhaps ploughing, gathering for crops, pruning the trees, or reaping the harvest." Chinese pilgrim to Nalanda University, Hiuen Tsiang affirms that although there were enough of rivalries and wars in the 7th century A.D. the country at large was little injured by them. 

Colonel James Tod, author of  Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan: or the Central and Western Rajput States of India South Asia Books; ; 2 edition (April 1998) ISBN 8120803809 wrote: "To spare a prostrate foe is the creed of the Hindu cavalier, and he carried all such maxims to excess."

What were the causes which led to the downfall of the Hindus? Why did the Indian states fall prey to the Muhammadan Turks in the 11th and 12th century?

King Asoka wanted to convert his empire into an open-air Buddhist monastery, at the expense of Hindu taxpayers whose interests in turn were marginalized. Buddhist principles derided martial prowess and criminally neglected the intrepidity and valor which fought for national independence. The excessive propaganda for unrestricted ahimsa which  King Asoka carried on by his use of political authority throughout his empire, cut at the very root of the Indian empire. 

For a few generations following Ashoka's demise, 'non-violent' Buddhists ate into the vitals of India's external defence, leaving the country vulnerable to a second wave of Greek attacks. 

According to Priyadarshi Dutta

"
The Greeks, who had concluded a treaty with Chandra-gupta Maurya, moved in to Ayodha before the Kalinga King Kharvela repulsed them. Later Pushyamita Sunga assassinated the last Maurya King and salvaged India. Buddhism vanished from India as a result of Muslim onslaught because none of them had the liver of the likes of say, Guru Govind Singh. While Hindus and Sikhs resisted Muslim onslaught, Buddhist submitted en mass to Islam." 

The Hindu defenders of the country although fully equal to their assailants in courage and contempt of death were nevertheless, divided among themselves. This division and disunion also enabled the crafty Turk invaders from the north to exploit the differences within the country. Hindus were more civilized and prosperous than the Turks. Moreover, the Turks had rude rigor of a semi-civilized barbarians who combined the fierce religious zeal of neo-converts. To spread their faith by conquest doubled their natural zest for battle and endowed them with the devoted valor of martyrs. In addition, the concept of ahimsa tended to create in certain sections of Hindus a deep abhorrence to all forms of violence. 

The Bhagavad Gita's great message: that violence is sometimes necessary, if it flows from Dharma.

Non-violence in thought, word and deed is the ideal of the yogi, as the Gita points out. Violence is never an ideal in a civilized society, but it cannot be avoided. Rulers of society have to employ it for their preservation. Even this terrible action can be performed as selfless service when lawless societies (eg. Muhammadan Turks or Europeans who came to India as invaders) prey upon others out of greed.

The Bhagavad Gita's great message: that violence is sometimes necessary, if it flows from Dharma

For a warrior, nothing is higher than a war
against evil.
The warrior confronted with such a war should be pleased, Arjuna, for it comes as an open gate to heaven.
But if you do not participate in this battle against evil, you will incur sin, violating your dharma and your honor....


- Bhagavad Gita 2.31-33


Books used for this chapter

War in Ancient India - By V. R. Ramachandra Dikshitar  
'Six Glorious Epochs of Indian History' - By Veer Vinayak Damador Savarkar 
German Indologists: Biographies of Scholars in Indian Studies writing in German - By Valentine Stache-Rosen.
Sword of Truth: Indian Marine Archaeology and its Historical Context - By Dr. Vijay Bedekar
The Art of War in Ancient India - By P. C. Chakravarti
Re-inventing a political Buddha - By Priyadarshi Dutta
Hindu America: revealing the story of the romance of the Surya Vanshi Hindus and depicting the imprints of Hindu culture on the two Americas - By Chaman Lal with foreword by Dr. S. Radhakrishnan. 3d ed. (LC History-America-E) 1966).

 

Next Tuesday, Part XIV of War in Ancient India






TOPICS: Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons
KEYWORDS: ancientindia; ancientwarfare; canteen; freepercanteen; hindu; hinduism; india
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To: MistyCA; The Real NavyChief

How did I overlook this? I hope Real Chief joins us too! Welcome Real Chief!


361 posted on 10/05/2004 4:48:33 PM PDT by Diva Betsy Ross
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To: StarCMC

STAR!!!! GREAT TO SEE YOU... feet up?


362 posted on 10/05/2004 4:49:51 PM PDT by Diva Betsy Ross
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To: mylife
I met a girl in oahu named Kumonawanalieya

ROFLMBO! (Ok, if that was a SERIOUS post Im sorry. The way Im pronouncing it, I'm thinking it must have been a joke!)

363 posted on 10/05/2004 4:50:46 PM PDT by StarCMC (It's God's job to forgive Bin Laden; it's our job to arrange the meeting.)
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To: laurenmarlowe; Diva Betsy Ross

Thank you. Don't forget to pray for Diva Betsy. I think her fingers are stuck in the crossed position.


364 posted on 10/05/2004 4:51:35 PM PDT by BykrBayb (5 minutes of prayer for Terri, every day at 11 am EDT, until she's safe. http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: BykrBayb
heeeheee.. what made you think taht? Was it my typin skills?
365 posted on 10/05/2004 4:52:23 PM PDT by Diva Betsy Ross
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To: StarCMC; mylife

HAHAH!!! Mylife-LOL!


366 posted on 10/05/2004 4:53:26 PM PDT by Diva Betsy Ross
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To: USAF_TSgt

Welcome back!! You've been missed!!!!


367 posted on 10/05/2004 4:56:53 PM PDT by StarCMC (It's God's job to forgive Bin Laden; it's our job to arrange the meeting.)
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To: Valin; All
BARRETT, THOMAS JOSEPH
b079.jpg (12956 bytes)
Name: Thomas Joseph Barrett
Rank/Branch: O2/US Air Force, GIB
Unit: 43rd TFS
Date of Birth: 5 November 39
Home City of Record: Lomax, IL
Date of Loss: 05 October 1965
Country of Loss: North Vietnam
Loss Coordinates: 213200N 1062100E (XJ397815)
Status (in 1973): Released POW
Category:
Aircraft/Vehicle/Ground: F4C
Incident # 0161
Missions: 34

Other Personnel in Incident: James O. Hivner Incident # 0161 (released POW);
from F105D aircraft nearby: Bruce G. Seeber Incident # 0160 (released POW);
and Dean Pogreba Incident 0162 (missing); Phillip E. Smith Incident # 0149
(captured from an F104C downed over Chinese territory on September 20)

Source: Compiled by Homecoming II Project 15 June 1990 from one or more of the
following: raw data from U.S. Government agency sources, correspondence with
POW/MIA families, published sources, personal interviews. Updated by the
P.O.W. NETWORK.

REMARKS: 730212 RELSD BY DRV

SYNOPSIS: On September 20, 1965 an American pilot named Capt. Phillip E. Smith
was shot down over the Chinese island of Hai Nan Tao. The case of Capt. Smith
ultimately became entwined with those of other American pilots lost in North
Vietnam the following month. Capt. Smith was flying an Air Force F104C and his
loss over Hai Nan island is perplexing.

The Lockheed F104 Starfighter was an unusual aircraft created in the mid-1950's
to fill a need for a more maneuverable, faster fighter aircraft. The result was
a Mach 2-speed aircraft thrust into a combat-aircraft world of Mach 1 and below.
The aircraft itself is spared looking like a rocket by its thin and extremely
short wings set far back on the long fuselage, and a comparatively large
tailplane carried almost at the top of an equally enormous fin. One less
apparent peculiarity was an ejection seat which shot the pilot out downwards
from under the fuselage rather than out the canopy of the cockpit. The
Starfighter was primarily a low-level attack aircraft capable of flying
all-weather electronically-guided missions at supersonic speed.

Why Capt. Smith was flying a strike aircraft over 40 miles inland in Chinese
territory is a matter for speculation. While the flight path to certain Pacific
points from Vietnam may take a pilot in the general vicinity of the island,
China was denied territory. According to one pilot, "Hai Nan was on the way to
nowhere we were supposed to be, and on the way back from the same place." Either
Smith was unbelievably lost or was on a mission whose purpose will never see the
light of day. Capt. Smith was captured by the Chinese.

Lieutenant Colonel Dean A. Pogreba was an F105D pilot attached to the 49th
Tactical Fighter Squadron at Yakota, Japan. In the fall of 1965, Pogreba was
given a temporary duty assignment to fly combat missions out of Takhli (Ta Khli)
Airbase, Thailand.

The aircraft flown by Pogreba, the F105 Thunderchief ("Thud") flew more missions
against North Vietnam than any other U.S. aircraft. It also suffered more
losses, partially due to its vulnerability, which caused the aircraft to be
constantly under revision.

On October 5, 1965, Pogreba departed Takhli as part of a five-plane combat
section on a bridge strike mission north of Hanoi in North Vietnam. Capt. Bruce
G. Seeber was Pogreba's wingman on the mission. At a point near the borders of
Lang Son and Ha Bac provinces, both Seeber's and Pogreba's aircraft were hit by
enemy fire and crashed. The location of loss given by the Defense Department is
approximately 40 miles southwest of the city of Dong Dang, which sits on the
border of North Vietnam and China. The area was "hot" with MiGs, surface-to-air
missiles (SAM) and anti-aircraft fire.

On the same day, an Air Force F4C Phantom fighter/bomber was shot down
approximately 5 miles from the city of Kep, and about 10 miles south of the
official loss location of Pogreba and Seeber. The crew of this aircraft
consisted of Major James O. Hivner and 1Lt. Thomas J. Barrett.

Curiously, Radio Peking announced the capture of an American pilot that day,
giving the pilot's name and serial number. It was Dean Pogreba that had been
captured. The U.S. never received separate confirmation of the capture, however,
and Pogreba was listed Missing in Action.

Gradually, it became known that the crew of the F4, Barrett and Hivner had been
captured by the North Vietnamese. Likewise, Bruce Seeber was also identified as
a prisoner of war of the Vietnamese. Dean Pogreba's fate was still unknown.

When American involvement in Vietnam ended, 591 Americans were released from
prisoner of war camps in Southeast Asia. Among them were Hivner, Barrett, Seeber
and Smith. Smith was released by the Chinese. Pogreba was still missing. None of
the returnees had any information regarding his fate, and all believed he had
died in the crash of his plane.

Reports of an American POW held in China that had fueled hopes for the Pogreba
family were correlated to Phillip Smith upon his release. The Pogreba family
thought this was hastily and summarily done. According to others in the flight
with Pogreba, Dean's plane had actually strayed into Chinese territory. Although
no information at all was forthcoming from the Chinese, the Pogrebas still
believed there was a good chance Dean had been captured.

Years passed, and no word of Pogreba was heard. Under the Carter Administration,
most of the men still listed prisoner, missing or unaccounted for were
administratively declared dead because of the lack of specific information that
they were alive. The Pogrebas, although haunted by the mystery of Dean's
disappearance, finally resigned themselves to the fact that he was most probably
dead, and went on with their lives. Dean's wife, Maxine, with children to raise
alone, ultimately remarried.

Then in 1989, Maxine Pogreba Barrell received some shocking news. Through an
acquaintance, she learned of a "high-ranking friend" of Dean's who claimed to
have visited Vietnam and spoken with her former husband. When she contacted this
retired Air Force Brigadier General, he told her a story quite different from
the official account given to Dean's family.

According to the General, Dean had indeed been shot down in China, but had been
brought back across the border into North Vietnam in 1965 by "friendlies."
Several attempts to rescue him had failed; two helicopters had crashed in the
effort. Then food and supplies were dropped to Dean and his rescuers; recovery
efforts were deemed impractical because of the hostile environment.

The General stated that he had never given up on Dean, and had made it his
mission to find the "gray-haired colonel" which he claimed he did in 1988 and
1989, traveling to Vietnam on a diplomatic passport. He told Dean's family that
Dean was alive and well and had adjusted to his "situation," which was a
solitary life in a village. Dean, he said, leaves the village daily to work.

Mrs. Barrell does not know how much credence to give the story. On one hand, she
says, the General asked nothing from them. He did not seek them out. On the
contrary, she and her family sought him out. Shortly after they spoke, the man
told her that he was in "trouble" with the U.S. Government and would not speak
with her again.

On the other hand, there is absolutely no way Dean's family can verify or
discount the General's story. A family, at relative peace for over a decade, is
once again suffering the uncertainty that comes with not knowing. The U.S.
Government simply isn't talking to them about it. One cannot simply fly to Hanoi
and beg permission to visit one's relative when Hanoi denies he even exists.

Unfortunately, the Pogreba story is not an aberration. Many cases of Americans
missing in Southeast Asia are fraught with inconsistencies, some to the point of
outright deception. Still others are hidden under the cloak of "national
security" classification; some cannot be revealed until after the year 2000.
These families will have to wait almost half a century to know the truth about
what happened to their men.

Since the war ended, U.S. intelligence agencies have conducted over 250,000
interviews and perused "several million documents" related to Americans still
missing, prisoner or unaccounted for in Southeast Asia. Many authorities,
including a former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, having reviewed this
largely classified information, have concluded that scores of Americans are
still alive in captivity today.

As long as even one American remains held against his will, we must do
everything in our power to bring him home. How can we afford to abandon our best
men?

November 1996
Thomas Barrett retired from the United States Air Force as a Lt. Colonel. He
and his wife Suzanne reside in Illinois.


368 posted on 10/05/2004 5:00:33 PM PDT by StarCMC (It's God's job to forgive Bin Laden; it's our job to arrange the meeting.)
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To: Diva Betsy Ross

I started going to Curves to work out a few months ago. I haven't been in since Rod had his heart attack. Now he's back at work, and he had me stop off there to check on my membership status today. They said it's good through March of next year. Now they expect me to come in tomorrow to work out. I don't feel like it!


369 posted on 10/05/2004 5:02:07 PM PDT by BykrBayb (5 minutes of prayer for Terri, every day at 11 am EDT, until she's safe. http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: BykrBayb; Diva Betsy Ross

Ouch! Sounds painful. Oh yes, I WILL pray for Dive Betsy to either get unstuck, or learn a really nifty new skill!


370 posted on 10/05/2004 5:04:05 PM PDT by laurenmarlowe
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To: Diva Betsy Ross
I don't belong to any MinuteMan organizations......but I did fight at the battles of Lexington and Concord disguised as a man.

In fact, I bet it was you I saw through a window.......sewing away on something red, white and blue whilst I was trudging down a lane with my trusty musket in hand.

Those were the days.....

Leni

371 posted on 10/05/2004 5:05:31 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: tomkow6
Good evening, OH SILLY ONE!


372 posted on 10/05/2004 5:07:50 PM PDT by StarCMC (It's God's job to forgive Bin Laden; it's our job to arrange the meeting.)
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To: LaDivaLoca; All

In Japan, the dragonfly symbolizes good luck, courage and manliness.
Japanese warriors often wore the dragonfly emblem in battle.



373 posted on 10/05/2004 5:11:26 PM PDT by Soaring Feather (~Poetry is my forte.~)
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To: MinuteGal

WELCOME HOME JON!!

Our pastor's son, a Marine, was stationed at 29 Palms and was at Al Asan. He's been home for a couple months! Wonder if they ever crossed paths? :o)


374 posted on 10/05/2004 5:16:24 PM PDT by StarCMC (It's God's job to forgive Bin Laden; it's our job to arrange the meeting.)
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To: MinuteGal
Ey! The sound of the drum and fife in the distance and the waving of our first flags....

Those were the days..indeed! :]

FOR YOU MINUTE GAL! LOOK HERE

375 posted on 10/05/2004 5:18:11 PM PDT by Diva Betsy Ross
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To: Diva Betsy Ross

Hey Diva - you're gonna have to head into the mountains. Check out the Blue Ridge Parkway area -- lots of apples and cider there!! :o) Mmmmm! Michigan's Cider Mills are AWESOME!! :o)


376 posted on 10/05/2004 5:18:53 PM PDT by StarCMC (It's God's job to forgive Bin Laden; it's our job to arrange the meeting.)
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To: Diva Betsy Ross; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Sort of up -- until hubby walks in and I need to dish out dinner...which reminds me...

SOUP REPORT

Chef: ME!

End of soup report

377 posted on 10/05/2004 5:21:52 PM PDT by StarCMC (It's God's job to forgive Bin Laden; it's our job to arrange the meeting.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
ROFL - I left out the best part!!

Vegetable beef stew in the crock pot

378 posted on 10/05/2004 5:23:30 PM PDT by StarCMC (It's God's job to forgive Bin Laden; it's our job to arrange the meeting.)
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To: StarCMC

Ok - gotta scoot for a bit -- see yall later I hope!! :o)


379 posted on 10/05/2004 5:24:31 PM PDT by StarCMC (It's God's job to forgive Bin Laden; it's our job to arrange the meeting.)
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To: StarCMC
No wonder why the gals in my homeschool group got a chuckle when I told them I wanted to have my annual Johny Appleseed party at a local Apple Orchard or Cider Mill!!!

Well there must be someway around this! I have a lesson on Johny Appleseed to teach! I guess I will have to figure something out! Back to the old Drawing Board.....

380 posted on 10/05/2004 5:27:11 PM PDT by Diva Betsy Ross
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