Don’t Shoot the Messenger . . ’cause this assessment’s grim

National Review ^ | 10/01/04 | Jay Nordlinger

[zencycler]

My response:

Kerry Wins Formal Debate, But Bush Wins News Coverage Debate

Read and watch tomorrow's news summaries of the debate. Bush's basic points are getting reported. Since I doubt many swing voters were glued to their sets tonight, I think the news coverage will have more influence. Also, Kerry gave up some great sound bytes (Global Test) that will come back to bite him.

[grey_whiskers]

Mr. Nordlinger appears to be thinking along the lines that 100 percent of people are undecided about who they are going to vote for, instead of the 20 percent or so, if we can believe the numbers, who are.

You forgot one thing. After watching these two guys drone on and on for hours about their political views, some of the 20% (I believe the true number is far less) may just effin' STAY HOME.

No one ever considers that possibility!

[RockinRight]

Yet another Bush to Reagan parallel. Reagan wasn't too hot in the first '84 debate with Comrade Mondale. But he shined in the second with the infamous line about exploiting youth and inexperience...look for W to do the same. Also, W did poorly in the first debate with Gore.

[dahvid]

Agreed Bush looked tired, but then again he probably has much more stress than Kerry at this time. Just because Kerry came across as more slick and well rested didn't score any points with me, it made me distrust him more because he seemed disingenuous like a slick well dressed salesman. Bush appeared to be more authentic, maybe more tired and stressed. I think Kerry looked like a fool and a dangerous one at that.

[hansel]

I agree with you. I am listening to Steve Malzberg on WABC and he is clearly frustrated that Bush didn't hound Kerry over every point. While I feel similar to a degree, I have to wonder if there was some master plan here by Bush/Rove. All I remember about what Kerry said was he was going to give Iran nuke material and we need to pass a global test to take pre-emptive action.

What sticks in my mind is Bush's absolute condemnation and rejection of these points.

FYI, Malzberg says that when Leher left the debate he gave Kerry a wink? What is that all about?????

[ALASKA]

I say........POLISH vs. SUBSTANCE

[Gelato]

Look on the bright side: this was as good as Kerry gets. We all know Bush can do better, and he will.

[cyncooper]

But surprisingly, the MSM doesnt appear ready to pile on...yet.

It's because you and the author (I usually admire Nordlinger's columns but not tonight) are wrong.

[grey_whiskers]

Wow that may be a Bush commercial right there.

Much better commercial: comb the transcript for quotes in which Kerry VERBATIM contradicts himself during just this one debate. Then run a faux-DNC ad:

"I'm John Kerry, and I approved this message." (video clip of statement 1)

"No, I'm John Kerry, and I approved this message." (video clip of contradictory statement)

"I'm John Kerry, and I approved even another message." (video clip of yet another statement)

Voice-over: will the real John Kerry please stand up?

Or a Bush cheap shot during next debate:

"That's a good answer, Senator, but foreign policy is NOT multiple choice." or (referring to Who Wants to be a Millionaire) "Senator, is that your final answer?"

[SmellsLikeOwen]

Yep!!!!! I Love Bush, and I think he's a great man. I think he's a straight up "good man".

I'll never get it. I'll never understand,....

I'm sick of "weak" people trying to speak for me. This includes every file you can think up,......including a National Championship, and a must win National home coaching project!! whatever big boy!! I'm sick of missing my husband that I would

[cyncooper]

The phrase "Don't shoot the messenger" ought only be used when one is delivering a fact based message, not opinion, so Jay got off to a bad start.

[hansel]

What were you're overall impressions of the debate?

A friend of mine called me a half an hour into it and he was yelling that Kerry was lying and arrogant. Granted he's a Bush supporter, but he was REALLY put off by Kerry.

[motherofmen]

I have to say I agree with you. But you have to realize the President has been working all week with the weight of the world on his shoulders, back to back campaigning, and slogging through the wreckage of hurricanes to help Floridians. Not windsurfing off Nantucket or get 'bronzed'.....

[faithincowboys]

Maybe I am crazy, I thought it could have gone much, much worse for us. When the debate ended, I thought Kerry didn't land a crippling blow. I thought like Lockhart that it was a draw-- which means Kerry lost, but Kerry does appear to be winning the post-deabte spin decisively.

[gsrinok]

Agreed Bush looked tired, but then again he probably has much more stress than Kerry at this time. Just because Kerry came across as more slick and well rested didn't score any points with me, it made me distrust him more because he seemed disingenuous like a slick well dressed salesman. Bush appeared to be more authentic, maybe more tired and stressed. I think Kerry looked like a fool and a dangerous one at that.

I agree with you completely. However, the real question that has to be answered is how did the rest of America see it. To people who actually pay attention to the issues, Kerry is fairly transparent. That's why I said that if you were to simply read a transcript of the debate, you would probably conclude that Bush won. Kerry's slick and polished style, though, will have an effect on people who really don't follow politics and the issues and just view the presidential race as not much more than a sporting event.

[TwoWolves]

If only it were true.

Fact is, the media will bury these points. Most Americans will never hear about them again. These points will be forgotten by Saturday, and what will remain will be the impressions that were formed tonight.

And the consensus seems to be that Kerry won on impressions.

[frank-the-tank]

Hate to say it as I loathe Kerry, but he won the debate (but not by a huge margin).
He delivered his lines well even though most were whoopers (NYC subway closed? huh? when?). Was eagerly awaiting bush to pounce on his rebuttals was often disappointed. He the Used "wrong war wrong time" line too much, when he could have attacked Kerry's Flip Flops with many more examples.
But the all important spin can go to Bush as Kerry made some big missteps that the non political person might have missed but make good sound bites such as

His many Gore-ish outright lies and exaggerations.

This election's "lock-box"...."Global-test" Bush's reaction was priceless. Beat Kerry over the head with it.

Did he say he would give Iran nuclear matteral, right after slamming bush on North Korea? How the Hell does that make us safer Mr Kerry?

Kerry said "I have a plan" about 1000 times, did he ever get around to telling us what exactly it was?

And another Shocking insight on Kerry, saying he would kill the new bunker busters and next generation of US nukes in the name of nonproliferation. HUH? Bush could have nailed him on all the other weapons Kerry voted against defending the country at this moment but missed it. As Dick Morris said on Fox "Were does he think the WMD's are kept in the store front window?"

I'm spent forgive my long ramble

[FightforFreedomCA]

I listened to the debate on the radio. I do think Bush repeated the "it's hard" thing quite a bit, but Kerry was exhausting me with his "I'm going to hold a summit" line. My take away was a draw.

[NYCVirago]

I think Kerry energized his base, but that's about all. He still comes across as a pompous jerk to the average Joe.

[rennatdm]

the president and the prime minister are carrying the world on their shoulders... exhaustion may be an understatement