Posted on 09/27/2004 11:40:43 PM PDT by Robert Lomax
The U.S. has no plans to deploy troops along the Mexican border to stanch the deluge of illegal aliens currently pouring into the country at the rate of 3 million per year, President Bush said in an interview broadcast on Monday.
"As the governor of Texas, I was very aware of this issue," Bush told Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly.
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"There is a long border, that makes it hard to control. We have beefed up places along the border to try to stop" the flow, he said. When told that his policy didn't seem to be working, Bush insisted, "It’s working a little better.
"They're doing a pretty good job down in Arizona, which is the main border crossing. ... I think there's a thousand more border patrol agents along the border. We’re modernizing border techniques, we’re using better surveillance methods to stop this crossing at the border."
The president contended, however, that illegal immigration was driven primarily by the economic realities of the region.
"If you can make 50 cents in the interior of Mexico and five bucks in the interior of the United States, you're coming for the five bucks," he explained.
"I happen to believe the best way to enhance the border is to have temporary-worker cards available for people," he said. "I think the long-term solution for this issue on our border is for Mexico to grow a middle class. That's why I believe in NAFTA."
When warned that "a lot of people are not going to like that answer," Bush told O'Reilly, "Well it’s a, a truthful answer."
It would be nice if some people would drop the ethnocentrism.
If you have a solution, please, by all means, give us your knowledge oh wise one.
http://www.claremont.org/writings/crb/fall2004/helprin.html
To the contrary, the borders must be controlled absolutely, as is the right of every sovereign nation. It is hardly impossible and would demand no more than adding to the Border Patrol a paramilitary force of roughly 30,000, equipped with vehicles, helicopters, unmanned aerial drones, fences, and sensors. Crowded and slow entry points should be expanded to provide quick and thorough inspection by traditional methods and inspection to the limits of technological advance where traditional methods are impossible, as in searching the interstices of vehicles, or packed cargo containers, for nuclear or chemical warfare material. The sea frontiers can be secured if we undertake to supplement the Coast Guard with a few dozen high endurance cutters, 100 coastal patrol vessels, 50 long-range reconnaissance aircraft, 100 helicopters, and the appropriate additional personnel; and if the navy, by expansion of its anti-submarine assets, fixed and afloat, guarantees against submarine infiltration.
Good gravy. What in the world are you talking about? Have you read my series or posts?
What I am sayin has nothing to do with fear. The violence, fatalities, and casualties I am concerned about is the ones that the Mexicans would suffer, not us.
Geez, what's your problem? What have I written that would encourage you to frame it that way? That's just whacked out, sorry.
Heh. You're whacked. You make as much sense as John Kerry. And no, I didn't read your series of posts on this thread.
So specifically what made you think I was scared of the Mexican Military?
Actually, they won't. They'll test the new arrangements, because the troop strength is extremely thin--only 6,000 personnel on post at any moment (1 person on post 24/7 requires 5 persons on the duty roster).
OK. Now, one of the two following things will happen:
1. The usual rules of engagement will be in force, sharply restricting the application of deadly force. This means that, essentially, a large body of illegal immigrants will be able to penetrate the border successfully--because, in the end, the 3-bodies-per-mile-of-border paramilitary force will not be able to apprehend a statistically significant portion of the illegal immigrants. Net result: the policy is a failure.
2. In this option, the rules of engagement are much looser, allowing the early application of deadly force. The result is a large number of dead illegal aliens.
Congratulations, you've just created the world's first capital misdemeanor. I'm not sure you intended to do that. You've managed to set a very bad precedent.
Additionally, you will have a public relations nightmare. Would this effort survive after the results are shown to America on the morning news? Once Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Public have finished throwing up their breakfast, they'll demand that the paramilitary forces be pulled off the border before lunchtime.
Finally, you're going to have to forbid the members of the paramilitary force from leaving the United States, or you're going to have to make sure that their employment in the paramilitary force is classified Top Secret. This is because once they've killed a bunch of unarmed civilians, they will be subject to extradition by the Mexican government. We may refuse to extradite, but every other country in the world will. So, either you forbid these paramilitary personnel from ever traveling abroad, or you create a police force whose membership is secret, and who are allowed very wide latitude in the employment of deadly force. Neither is a desirable situation.
Net result: you're back to the previously unacceptable situation, plus you've made any other attempt to solve the problem deal with the mess you made of the previous attempt.
Helprin's proposal simply ignores the ROE issue, and ignores the question of deadly force. In order for his concept of operations to work, the rules of engagement must allow employment of lethal force the instant someone's foot touches the US side of the border.
Finally, there are ways around the border.
Oh boy...
The 'shoot first and ask questions later' school of a militarized border patrol are the most childish bunch of people, and they certainly aren't speaking for conservatives.
I think they should just go play paintball wargames on the weekends to let out some of that agression.
You are right. Further, the post you responded to asks about being afraid of mexicans (soldiers, I figure). That makes utterly no sense since at no time did anyone in this board suggest that they were afraid of the military.
In my case, I just said that there is no significant support for militarizing the mexican border and going out with guns blazing. There isn't, of coure. But some Freepers remain wilfully unaware of that. They convinced themselves that the nation wants to see dead mexicans piling up on the border.
Thanksfully most Americans don't want that. And thankfully those that advocate that are a weak, impotent, and ineffectice minority.
They seem to have no grasp of the fact that they are a weak, impotent, and ineffctive minority.
An ounce of clarity goes a very long way.
It goes without saying that your nation protects the well being if the people. That's the only reason for a nation (hence my tagline).
I do believe that if aliens discover that they will be apprehended and booted out they will stop coming here, with less blood lost all around.
The solution to the illegal immigration problem is going to be messy and complicated.
I am for securing the border. I am not for shooting the runners dead.
Yep, but there is no wide public support for it being bloody and messy (at least not yet).
"German saying: There is NOTHING as permanent as a "temporary" guest worker!"
So when are Americans going to get a clue? Our politicians are telling us we should have a guestworker program and people are buying it! (They should all read my 200 page study on migration into Germany following the collapse of the Soviet Union.) GUESTWORKER PROGRAMS DO NOT WORK PEOPLE!!! Just ask the Germans.
You are quite correct, it IS obvious. I will not tolerate evil, no matter HOW it is packaged. In any event, please tell me just HOW you would pressure a globalist lame duck with an agenda? And why would you want to just "hope" that he would go where you want to, when he has had four years already and all you've gotten are a couple scraps and zero substance? His record speaks for itself. And it does not reflect well on him OR his vociferous supporters, the "wishing and hoping" brigade.
I have a solution which would work and also satisfy your objections (which I share). More to follow after I get my wife from work!
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