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To: HitmanNY
I have no problem with something like that, I just think that the 'militarize the border' crew don't realize how nasty that will get. I think they have a childish view of things and they seem to be inattentive to the violence that would be the fruit of that move.

 You are sacred of Mexicans? Why should we fear that 3rd world pit? A show of strength on the border and they'll slink away. Show of strength means 30,000 of our military to supplement the Border Patrol. Highly mobile with helicopters etc. Lots of sensors planted and monitored. Mexi-invaders will get the message
925 posted on 09/29/2004 3:55:15 PM PDT by dennisw (Gd is against Amelek for all generations.)
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To: dennisw

Good gravy. What in the world are you talking about? Have you read my series or posts?

What I am sayin has nothing to do with fear. The violence, fatalities, and casualties I am concerned about is the ones that the Mexicans would suffer, not us.

Geez, what's your problem? What have I written that would encourage you to frame it that way? That's just whacked out, sorry.


926 posted on 09/29/2004 3:59:07 PM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: dennisw; HitmanNY; Barlowmaker; Chemist_Geek; hchutch
You are sacred of Mexicans? Why should we fear that 3rd world pit? A show of strength on the border and they'll slink away. Show of strength means 30,000 of our military to supplement the Border Patrol. Highly mobile with helicopters etc. Lots of sensors planted and monitored. Mexi-invaders will get the message.

Actually, they won't. They'll test the new arrangements, because the troop strength is extremely thin--only 6,000 personnel on post at any moment (1 person on post 24/7 requires 5 persons on the duty roster).

OK. Now, one of the two following things will happen:

1. The usual rules of engagement will be in force, sharply restricting the application of deadly force. This means that, essentially, a large body of illegal immigrants will be able to penetrate the border successfully--because, in the end, the 3-bodies-per-mile-of-border paramilitary force will not be able to apprehend a statistically significant portion of the illegal immigrants. Net result: the policy is a failure.

2. In this option, the rules of engagement are much looser, allowing the early application of deadly force. The result is a large number of dead illegal aliens.

Congratulations, you've just created the world's first capital misdemeanor. I'm not sure you intended to do that. You've managed to set a very bad precedent.

Additionally, you will have a public relations nightmare. Would this effort survive after the results are shown to America on the morning news? Once Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Public have finished throwing up their breakfast, they'll demand that the paramilitary forces be pulled off the border before lunchtime.

Finally, you're going to have to forbid the members of the paramilitary force from leaving the United States, or you're going to have to make sure that their employment in the paramilitary force is classified Top Secret. This is because once they've killed a bunch of unarmed civilians, they will be subject to extradition by the Mexican government. We may refuse to extradite, but every other country in the world will. So, either you forbid these paramilitary personnel from ever traveling abroad, or you create a police force whose membership is secret, and who are allowed very wide latitude in the employment of deadly force. Neither is a desirable situation.

Net result: you're back to the previously unacceptable situation, plus you've made any other attempt to solve the problem deal with the mess you made of the previous attempt.

Helprin's proposal simply ignores the ROE issue, and ignores the question of deadly force. In order for his concept of operations to work, the rules of engagement must allow employment of lethal force the instant someone's foot touches the US side of the border.

Finally, there are ways around the border.

929 posted on 09/29/2004 4:57:24 PM PDT by Poohbah (If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
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