POLAND BETRAYED

Red Scare or Red Menace? | 1996 | John E. Haynes

[Tailgunner Joe]

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[Mount Athos]

I get the feeling the author has no comprehension about the limitations of negotiating power Roosevelt had at Yalta. Russian troops occupied half of Poland, what the heck was the USA supposed to do, start a war to force them out? What concession would the author hope for to make his goal happen, give away West Germany perhaps? Ridiculous to second judge Yalta in hindsight without some consideration of the situation...

[eleni121]

FDR displayed an unfortunate naivete failing to see the Soviet Union's Stalin for what he was: worse than the gangsters of Hitler and Mussolini. Of course having Commie sympathizers all around him didn't help matters.

World politics seemed to be nothing more to Roosevelt than local ward politics.


Excellent read:

ROOSEVELT AND STALIN: THE FAILED COURTSHIP

by Robert Nisbet

[ppaul]

Thanks Joe.
BUMP

[dbehsman]

"I get the feeling the author has no comprehension about the limitations of negotiating power Roosevelt had at Yalta."

Limitations of negotiating power? If I recall correctly, in WWII Remington was making rifles for the Russians. Also, I remember hearing that the U.S. was suppling Russia with practically all of its food.

"Russian troops occupied half of Poland, what the heck was the USA supposed to do, start a war to force them out?"

YES.

"What concession would the author hope for to make his goal happen, give away West Germany perhaps?"

Concession? Who the hell needed to give any concessions to the Russians. A small country about the size of Wisconsin kicked Russia's rear all the way to Moscow. The only thing that stopped Germany was Russia's bad winter during the time of the attack and Germany's putzing around with the issue.

"Ridiculous to second judge Yalta in hindsight without some consideration of the situation..."

Do I have to remind you that Joe Stalin butchered more human beings that two Hitler's? Russia also was one of the original invaders of Poland with Germany in 1939. FDR sold out Eastern Europe. As far as I'm concerned, he is complicit with the forty plus years of misery, death and deprivation of millions of people who did nothing wrong.

[ppaul]

Russian troops occupied half of Poland, what the heck was the USA supposed to do, start a war to force them out?

No. We were supposed to finish the war and free Europe from tyranny. Patton's armored divisions were ready and waiting for the orders to send the Reds packing all the way back to Moscow - orders which never came. Millions were condemned to starvation, enslavement, death.

[Mount Athos]

None of which changes the fact that there was no national will in 1945 to begin a new war against the Soviets. Not from the President, the congress, or the american people. Not an option.

[Lukasz]

I get the feeling the author has no comprehension about the limitations of negotiating power Roosevelt had at Yalta. Russian troops occupied half of Poland, what the heck was the USA supposed to do, start a war to force them out?

At least he should start the negotiation process or before told the Poles that he isn’t interest in this matter. Maybe thousands of polish soldiers would not perished in foreign war. No one forced FDR to accept the communist government in Poland but it was proof of his intentions.

[ppaul]

None of which changes the fact that there was no national will in 1945 to begin a new war against the Soviets.

New war? We were already at war! Patton wanted to conduct a "mop up" operation to rid Europe of the mrderous tyrants who helped start the war - the corroborators with Hitler who in 1939 invaded Poland. And, Patton would have succeeded. However, FDR had a love affair with "Uncle Joe" which blinded him from the reality of what communism is - the same love affair which even today infects the U.S. left. FDR sold out the freedom-loving peoples of central and eastern Europe to another holocaust surrounded by an Iron Curtain.

[Mount Athos]

I'm sorry, do you believe FDR could snap his fingers and make communist government in Poland go away? How exactly was he supposed to make Stalin do what he wants, please be specific. How do you evict the troops from Poland. It would take a new war. Stalin would have given up Poland in negotiations at Yalta, but at what cost in concessions elsewhere? West Germany? Japan? Do you people have any grasp of how negotiations work?

Stalin was our ally in WWII, and the American people had no interest in 1945 for more fighting with a new enemy. It was never an option, it could never have happened, please stop dreaming.

[Lukasz]

First I didn’t wrote anything about new war, it was American problem, American decision and now American history. FDR should start the negotiations, he was a politician and it was his job (and Churchill) to find the right arguments after that when he and the Brits used thousands of polish soldiers in all fronts of WWII, not mention his promises to Polish-Americans and polish government in exile. As for arguments in the negotiation process, look exhausted and poor-armed (American weapons, next argument) Soviet army stood in the territory of their enemies. He should remind Stalin how weak army he had (partially polish prisoners of war which hated the Soviets most of all).

Stalin would have given up Poland in negotiations at Yalta, but at what cost in concessions elsewhere? West Germany? Japan?

Of course! Austria and other enemies and collaborators which deserved to be in the Soviet side of iron curtain. But never allies!

But finally FDR betrayed Poland when he accept communistic polish government and ignored legal government in exile in London. He didn’t must start the new war but also he didn’t must accept communists. He also covered the Soviet crimes in Katyn. If you say that he did it in the name of good relationships with Stalin, I tell you who cares? Betray is betray…

[Lukasz]

I forget this polish prisoners of war in Soviet army, they weren’t real soldiers but civilians with guns! Probably similar situation was with big part of Soviet army.

[Polak z Polski]

I am from Poland, and I had to live under the bastard communists for many years, until they were overthrown. I can't believe how some people think that communism is simply "uncomfortable." It is the worst system ever devised by mankind.

Did you know that the russians and even the Polish communists forbade us from honoring those murdered at Katyn, but still said that the soviet union was Poland's liberator and best friend?
The Katyn victims weren't even given a tombstone or memorial. We honored them and remembered them anyways.
One way we did this was to put flowers on an unmarked cobblestone in a cementary in Warsaw. It was our Katyn square.

If some dim-wit who doesn't know much about anything tells you that the communists saved Poland from the nazis, know that for many living in towns where the nazis were replaced by soviets, it went from systematic, brutal murder and rape, to a bloody chaotic rampage. The soviets were even worse than the nazis!

What makes me really angry is that in Canada, where I am currently living, most people seem to think of communists as just another party, if not "cool." Right here, where I am sitting and typing in a university computer lab, there hangs a poster of the student's union events commisioner. Written at the top, in large block letters, is "vive le dickie."
Below, there is a big picture of guy wearing a baseball cap, and a t-shirt with a huge hammer and sickle on it. The guy looks proud of himself, with his hands behind his back, and his chest displaying the communist flag. Don't these people get that nazi=communist=evil?

I just bought an absolutely excellent book about Poland and World War Two. It is called "A Question of Honor," and was written by two Americans, Stanley Cloud, and Lynne Olson, who thoroughly researched and asked many involved in the fighting, the decision making, and the betrayals.

I most strongly reccomend this book to anyone interested in truth, not simply what they wish to hear. Once you read it, I am sure that you too will also reccommend it to everyone you know, and to those you don't.

There is a website for the book, with an excerpt, and info.
This is at www.questionofhonor.com
enjoy!

[ppaul]

Polak z Polski:

Thank you for the link to http://www.questionofhonor.com.

Brave men of honor.
Betrayed by the free world.

[Polak z Polski]

My pleasure. It is always good to know there are people like you who want to know the truth, not just what they are "supposed" to believe. I hope everyone gets a chance to read this book. It is really that good.

Also, thank you for supporting Poland you guys. It is easy to think that nobody gives a damn when many are purposely ignorant. When we here that others do in fact care, it shows us we are not alone.

God Bless

[Polak z Polski]

My pleasure. It is always good to know there are people like you who want to know the truth, not just what they are "supposed" to believe. I hope everyone gets a chance to read this book. It is really that good.

Also, thank you for supporting Poland you guys. It is easy to think that nobody gives a damn when many are purposely ignorant. When we here that others do in fact care, it shows us we are not alone.

God Bless

[cornelis]

None of which changes the fact that there was no national will in 1945 to begin a new war against the Soviets.

There was no need for national will to send relief to Warsaw in September '44.

[Mount Athos]

Wow you responded to something I typed 9 years ago

[cornelis]

about something 69 years ago ;)