ANTI-IRAQI FORCES ATTACK 1ST INFANTRY DIVISION FROM MOSQUE

CENTCOM ^ | September 22, 2004

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

	NEWS RELEASE HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES CENTRAL COMMAND 7115 South Boundary Boulevard MacDill AFB, Fla. 33621-5101 Phone: (813) 827-5894; FAX: (813) 827-2211; DSN 651-5894

September 22, 2004
Release Number: 04-09-72

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


ANTI-IRAQI FORCES ATTACK 1ST INFANTRY DIVISION FROM MOSQUE

TIKRIT, Iraq— A 1st Infantry Division patrol was attacked Sept. 22 by anti-Iraqi forces with small arms fire and mortar fire from a mosque in Samarra at approximately 5 p.m. The Soldiers did not return fire.

The patrol had been attacked earlier by AIF in another location of the city and returned fire. The AIF relocated to a nearby building and continued attacking the patrol. Attack helicopters supporting the patrol fired hellfire missiles into the building.

The patrol continued and was subsequently attacked by AIF with small arms fire and rocket propelled grenades. The Soldiers returned fire with small arms fire and a TOW missile. Anti-Iraqi Forces again attacked the patrol and attack aviation dropped a GBU-12 bomb on the building. As the patrol continued they were engaged by AIF from the mosque.

There were no injuries to the Soldiers or damage to equipment.

[justshutupandtakeit]

No it is not appropriate any more than Genghis Khan's tactics were. Or did you think Kerry's comments about our troops acting like Genghis Khan was accurate and a GOOD thing?

[Heyworth]

There's a contingent of neo-rebs here on FR who would tell you that order constitutes evidence of war crimes.

[PAR35]

Apparently you are not aware that our enemies in Iraq are from other countries as terrorists from across the Middle East flock in to fight us realizing that if we are successful there they are finishied.

Incoming terrorists are warmly welcomed and sheltered by the locals.

There is no comparison to Germany or Japan. Germany was divided into four zones and Japan was isolated by the oceans. Iraq is wide open for infiltration.

To the west and south there are vast expanses of desert and wasteland with few passible roads which could be remotely monitored and interdicted. Most access is from friendly Kuwait, semi - friendly Turkey, and hostile Shiite Iran.

With regard to your statement about Germany, Iraq should have been split into 3 occupation zones. The Kurdish north could have been largely self-governing by now providing almost all of its own internal security. (Similar to the BiZone in Germany). Use the Shiites to threaten the Sunnis and the Sunnis to threaten the Shiites, and you begin to have the basis for security.

Shiite leadership is NOT controlled by Iran

I don't accept this proposition. Certainly the "leaders" recognized by the west are not, but the ones with Iranian ties seem to enjoy ample popular support.

Apparently you are not even aware that the majority of the attacks are NOT from Shiites in the first place.

Are you talking sheer numbers of IED attacks? If so, you may be correct. The Shiites seem to be better able to put forth organized, large scale operations, however.

as Shistani has repeatedly said.

As 'Uncle Joe' Stalin once said of the Pope, "How many divisions does he control?"

[justshutupandtakeit]

There are only a few areas where these infiltrators are welcomed and even there they must be very secretive and hide. They are making war on the Iraqis more than on the Americans and the former are getting tired of it as the cooperation we get shows. Our forces get hundreds of tips a day about these a-holes.

Infiltrators do not come from Turkey or Saudi Arabia. Syria has indicated it will cooperate with the US to cover the northern border. Iran is still a problem and will be dealt with in time. Splitting Iraq is the option of the last resort and we have not reached that point yet.

Your view of the Iraq/Iran relationship is contradicted by almost all who have studied this issue. There is NO willingness by the average Iraqi to put themselves under the control of the Mullahs.

There has been no large scale operations run by the Shiites. Even the lil pissant's operations were not that large and (unless their killing is the goal) hardly effective. They have killed a few soldiers and suffered hundreds if not thousands of deaths themselves.

Sistani has great influence there even without divisions. He could put thousands on the streets at a moments notice and without troops removed the lil Pissant from the Najaf mosque. Stalin could not understand power derived from love only that from fear.

[PAR35]

There has been no large scale operations run by the Shiites.

"Militiaman loyal to an anti-US Shi'ite cleric controlled large swaths of three Iraqi cities today after clashes with US-led coalition forces, " http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:ZpjauPxmuYUJ:www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/08/1081326864497.html%3Ffrom%3Dstoryrhs+mosque+fallujah+iraq&hl=en

Splitting Iraq is the option of the last resort and we have not reached that point yet.

That's what the Democrats in Washington said about Germany in 1946. Fortunately, circumstances beyond their control mandated independent action in the BiZone (France got on board later), the establishment of the BDR, the establishment of NATO, the de-facto split of Berlin ....

[justshutupandtakeit]

Allow me to interprete for you: "large swathes" = a few blocks; "controlled" = able to open fire on occasion. A few dozen inept punks is hardly a large scale operation. We have street gangs in Chicago capable of a better fight than these losers.

I do not care what democRATs said in 1946 or any time actually none of it affects the truth of my statement. There is no need to split Iraq. I can only imagine your criticisms had you been around in 1942 or 1862 with such a lack of faith and understanding. "Abe, are we there yet?" "FDR, are we there yet?" "You mean we have been fighting a year and WE HAVEN'T WON YET?"

It must be terrible to get hysterical at the slightest setback or apparent setback and unable to trust our leadership. Leadership which has brought down three terrorist regimes in two year, one without firing a shot.

You are a Kerryite, right?

[PAR35]

You are a Kerryite, right?

Wrong. I don't like liberals - including those in the present administration.

I must have prevailed in this discussion, since you are reduced to name calling. Now go play with your Shiite allies.

[justshutupandtakeit]

YOu prevailed in your imagination. Nowhere else. In fact, warmed over RATmedia nonsense convinces no one on this thread except yourself.

[PAR35]

YOu prevailed in your imagination. Nowhere else. In fact, warmed over RATmedia nonsense convinces no one on this thread except yourself.

I understand now where you are coming from and your defense of the Muslims. I won't try to change your theology.

Your denomination has called for disinvestment from Israel, and has long supported the Palestinian cause.
http://www.pcusa.org/tenyeartrends/report/4LLLNTF/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1165381/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1174131/posts

Your pastor is on the "Common Ground" committee with Dr. Irfan Ahmad Khan Ph.D.; Muslim scholar; President, World Council of Muslims for Interfaith Relations.
http://www.cg.org/people.asp

And your congregation has lost about 1/3 of its members over the last 10 years.
http://www.pcusa.org/tenyeartrends/report/4LLLNTF/all_statistics.jsp

[PhilDragoo]

Useful contextual information in 69.

Ollie North's WAR STORIES on Fox Sunday was "Under Fire in Ramallah".

A very good shot of a TOW missile fired from a Humvee at a vehicle suspected as being an IED.

[PAR35]

There's a contingent of neo-rebs here on FR

Some take offense at the "neo" part at the label.

[SJackson]

There's a contingent of neo-rebs here on FR who would tell you that order constitutes evidence of war crimes.

Kerry would agree. In it's execution, might be something there, my understanding is it was interprited rather loosely.

Then again, Pope was just putting down a rebellion. Bunch of rabble. He couldn't win on the field, so why not harass the populace. I'd probably cut Sherman a little more slack, he was fighting a war.

[SJackson]

I don't watch much tv, but I'll look for that.

Ramallah, that's our palestinian allies ;<( isn't it? Can't imagine how they'd qualify for war stories.

[PAR35]

Pope was just putting down a rebellion. Bunch of rabble.

Let's not hijack this thread with these issues. I'll look for you sometime on a southern heritage thread and we can have at it when it is on topic.

[SJackson]

You started it :>)

[Chemist_Geek]

Who's got the word on whether or not we can retaliate directly on enemy fire if it is coming from a mosque?

Protected facilities lose their protected status if they are used as bases for hostile action.

Buildings and Areas To Be Protected

In sieges and bombardments all necessary measures must be taken to spare, as far as possible, buildings dedicated to religion, art, science, or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals, and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not being used at the time for military purposes.

[PAR35]

You started it :>)

No, that honor could either go to you for your post 33, or to Heyworth for 62. I let 33 pass for the reason I articulated in 72, and didn't express a personal opinion to 62 (I have used the term neo-Confederate myself, and was not personally offended by neo-reb, although some might be.)

That being said, I look forward to doing battle on a Heritage thread some day; so many of the militant yankees have gotten banned that the debates tend to be fairly short.

[Happy2BMe]

Oh - that's good stuff! Thank you, Chemist Geek.

Clarification on our armed forces right to return fire when it is coming from a mosque comes directly from our Military Field Manual - FM27-10, cHPTR 2 - Hostilites:

45. Buildings and Areas To Be Protected

a. Buildings To Be Spared.

In sieges and bombardments all necessary measures must be taken to spare, as far as possible, buildings dedicated to religion, art, science, or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals, and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not being used at the time for military purposes.

It is the duty of the besieged to indicate the presence of such buildings or places by distinctive and visible signs, which shall be notified to the enemy beforehand. (HR, art. 27.) (See also GC, arts. 18 and 19; pars. 257 and 258 herein, dealing with the identification and protection of civilian hospitals.)

b. Areas To Be Protected. In order to protect buildings used for medical purposes from being accidentally hit, it is desirable that the wounded and sick should, if possible, be concentrated in an area remote from military objectives or in an area neutralized by arrangement with the enemy. See GC, arts. 14, 18, and 19; pars. 253, 257, and 258 herein, concerning the establishment of hospital and safety zones and localities.)

[Smartass]

Can the Gen. Orders of engagement. Level it, with them in it.

[Happy2BMe]

That's a good question and I think it has to do with how much Aljazeera and CNN coverage is at the moment and who the on scene commander is.