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The Conservative Case Against George W. Bush
New York Press ^ | September 22-28, 2004 | William Bryk

Posted on 09/22/2004 5:32:31 AM PDT by Dazedcat

Theodore Roosevelt, that most virile of presidents, insisted that, "To announce that there should be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American people."...........

(Excerpt) Read more at nypress.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: bush43; dramaqueen; moby; zot
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To: MindBender26
You have a binary choice: Bush or Jean Claude Kerry`

But can we at least agree that we have no Conservative candidate to vote for in November?

41 posted on 09/22/2004 5:55:02 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: Alberta's Child

candidates for the two major parties have gradually converged to the point where they are almost identical in their outlook and political philosophy. If nothing else, this makes for dull, boring campaigns over inconsequential issues.

---
DO WHAT? How can you say that the Democratic Party and the Republican party have the same views? Do you believe that abortion is an inconsequential issue? How about protecting this country?


42 posted on 09/22/2004 5:55:34 AM PDT by downtoliberalism ("A coalition partner must do more than just express sympathy, a coalition partner must perform,")
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
Fascist: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

Well, you just described the Islamist worldview to a fare-thee-well...

43 posted on 09/22/2004 5:56:32 AM PDT by Poohbah (If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
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To: Dazedcat

How about this? Bush is fighting a war on which the very survival of this country rests. This is not some banana republic police action, this war, if lost could doom this country. Imagine a nuclear bomb in New York city. Under the circumstance, practically every other issue becomes secondary, and Bush trades in all kinds of political chits to move the country forward on that issue alone. He can compromise anything else just about in order to keep everyone together for the battle. Kerry's response to 9/11 would have been a few more cruise missles, some protests at the UN, and then threats to chase down the terrorists. Bush did was we should have done the first time the WTC was attacked, he took it to them. I don't need to know anymore than that.

This is not a flame, just something I think people who want a perfect conservative in the White House ought to consider.


44 posted on 09/22/2004 5:57:30 AM PDT by Casloy
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To: Stop_Neocons

Unfortunately, "undiluted socialism" will make certain that the sheeple get to choose only once... To get rid of it you'd need a civil war.


45 posted on 09/22/2004 6:00:22 AM PDT by Little Ray (John Ffing sKerry: Just a gigolo!)
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To: Guard Dog

"I would like nothing better than to see the US return to the Monroe/T Roosevelt doctine and begin over the coming years to extricate ourselves from the rest of the world and concentrate on the western hemisphere. No matter who we elect in the next 50 years that will not happen."

It's negative thinking like that which will ensure it won't happen. Buck up!

"Yes he is the lesser of evils you might say, but he is much much ... much lesser than the alternative"

Conservatism has a dialectic of its own. A people cannot become truly conservative unless they have an oppresive liberalism (i.e. socialism) to react against. Change comes through this contradiciton. I believe Hegel called it "heightening the contradictions". Or as that great philosopher Steve Miller put it" "you have to go through hell before you get to Heaven."


46 posted on 09/22/2004 6:00:27 AM PDT by Stop_Neocons (Only a fool sticks his hand in a hornet's nest)
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To: downtoliberalism

If possible both Teddy and FDR would be rolling over in their graves if they are seeing the gradualism that has taken place in American politics.


47 posted on 09/22/2004 6:00:38 AM PDT by snakeoil (A+Bert)
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To: All

This thread perpetuates a self indulgent bent from the few percent of Republicans who did not get the memo.

It Does Not Have To Be All About You.

Why would you want to condemn your family and neighbors and friends to life under the opposition? Why? Don't obfuscate and talk about who failed what. Just decide if you want your kids to grow up under the opposition.


48 posted on 09/22/2004 6:02:19 AM PDT by Owen
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
"The whole homicide versus suicide bomber is just silly semantics."

Well, that's true to some extent, but wouldn't a true "suicide bomber" be someone who straps a body to himself and goes out and stands alone in a field and says, "If you don't do what I want, I'll blow myself up"?

49 posted on 09/22/2004 6:02:53 AM PDT by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsënspåånkængrüppen ØberKømmändø (EMØØK))
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To: Little Ray

"To get rid of it you'd need a civil war"

And that's a problem because ...

Seriously it's all part of the dialectic. Since the libs don't believe in guns, the "civl war" you fear would be mercifully short and in our favor. Maybe we can stop that pendulum from swinging left once and for all.


50 posted on 09/22/2004 6:03:12 AM PDT by Stop_Neocons (Only a fool sticks his hand in a hornet's nest)
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To: Numbers Guy

the problem with "homicide bomber" is that it is pure propaganda AND it does not fully describe the signified.

A "homicide bomber" doesn't have to commit suicide.

Tim McVeigh was a "homicide bomber"

Eric Rudolph was a "homicide bomber"

"suicide bomber" conveys the fact that the bomber killed themselves too...

if one committed suicide by blowing one's self up without killing anyone else, then one would be someone that "committed suicide."

"homicide bomber" is just a discursive trick by those that want to somehow make "suicide bomber" even worse...

It is really strange when ostensibly conservative people play the same sorts of post-modern word games that they claim to oppose amongst left wingers.

"suicide bomber" is the proper way to refer to terrorists that blow themselves up and take others with them.





51 posted on 09/22/2004 6:04:24 AM PDT by steveeboy
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To: Dazedcat
Why is there a section of the GOP/conservative moment that enjoys being out of power? I can't see why people would rather have nothing if they can't have everything.
52 posted on 09/22/2004 6:05:02 AM PDT by garbanzo (Free people will set the course of history)
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To: Dazedcat; oldglory

Your confusion about this presidential election betrays you --- AT BEST --- as an emotionally immature relativist. This makes you a potential danger to our Constitution in its present form.


53 posted on 09/22/2004 6:05:40 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
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To: Stop_Neocons
Conservatism has a dialectic of its own. A people cannot become truly conservative unless they have an oppresive liberalism (i.e. socialism) to react against

One thing wrong with this and what I read in your earlier post. World history has demonstrated that once a nation descends into socialism it is an abyss from which there is no bloodless escape. Why do you think the democrats push gun control so hard. To keep us safe? No, once we are disarmed thay can have their way with us. As for socialism, to quote Lenin "The purpose of socialism is communism".

54 posted on 09/22/2004 6:05:49 AM PDT by Guard Dog (Who fears the wrath of a coward?)
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To: hchutch
Conn, sonar, new troll contact bearing 190. Can't say for sure, but it looks like we hit a paleo from Buchananville... Hey, that's not fair to the Buchananites. Buchanan himself said he would rather that Bush win than Kerry. I would say that those in blow-out states should vote their conscience. Those in close states have to consider the flood of Supreme Court picks that the '04 winner WILL make. Off topic, but if "W" wins, I would recommend that if the Senate (thanks to Specter and Snowe) won't ratify his judges, that he should just leave the spots vacant. It would be sort of a "reverse packing" scheme. Eventually we would have a Supreme ourt with Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy (unfortunately, the traitor is too young). Wouldn't you love to see all of those 2-1 decisions?
55 posted on 09/22/2004 6:07:07 AM PDT by sittnick (There's no salvation in politics.)
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To: Stop_Neocons; Jim Robinson
Seriously it's all part of the dialectic. Since the libs don't believe in guns, the "civl war" you fear would be mercifully short and in our favor.

I'm sure the good folk of Charleston, SC thought the same in 1861. I'm sure the good folk of Beirut thought the same in 1975.

If you want to live in a country undergoing a civil war, please pick one (there is no shortage) and emigrate.

56 posted on 09/22/2004 6:07:12 AM PDT by Poohbah (If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
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To: Stop_Neocons
O.K. then you tell us what is the answer.....don't vote? and lose any right to legitimately complain. For crying out loud..I can't even let my brain compute a phrase like "president kerry"....you talk about repugnant and revolting...having that ugly man(both physically and politically)running American foreign policy and worse, the commander in chief of our armed forces!?....what a nightmare.....

As long as America's political system is what it is....and we are forced to vote for the lesser of two evils, I will take the lesser every time....with the hope that the lesser will take more time to destroy us...and in the mean time we may be able to find someone to lead us who is a lesser evil than the former lesser evil.

57 posted on 09/22/2004 6:07:16 AM PDT by B.O. Plenty
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To: Dazedcat

check later


58 posted on 09/22/2004 6:07:32 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Stop_Neocons; Poohbah; section9; veronica

Excuse, I think the Weekly Standard is dead on target when it comes to what we are facing. I hold the paleocons likebuchanan in equal contempt with the pacifist left.

We're at war - and I'd rather fight the thungs over there than fight them in our schoolyards and shopping malls.


59 posted on 09/22/2004 6:07:54 AM PDT by hchutch (I only eat dolphin-safe veal.)
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To: Guard Dog

"once a nation descends into socialism it is an abyss from which there is no bloodless escape"

1954 just called. It wants that sentence back.


60 posted on 09/22/2004 6:07:58 AM PDT by Stop_Neocons (Only a fool sticks his hand in a hornet's nest)
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