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Putin: Ally or Terrorist? (Russian FSB/KGB Real Culprits Behind "Chechen Terrorism")
The New American ^ | February 2002 | William Jasper

Posted on 09/21/2004 8:24:29 PM PDT by GIJoel

click here to read article


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To: Luis Gonzalez

Great posts, thanks!


561 posted on 09/23/2004 9:56:10 AM PDT by Francisco
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To: Frank_Discussion
We don't disagree that much. Russians generally follow strong leaders, regardless of that leader's philosophy. And, they have been conditioned to harsh leadership for generations. Surveys cited in various Foreign Policy journals have indicated that the Russian populace would rather have order than American type freedom, even if obtaining that order required a return to Communism. This would not surprise me but it would not scare me either. The world has changed too much in the last 15 years. The resurrection of a USSR, Stalinist global power desirous of world domination is at best a minimal possibility.

However, that is not the issue here. The issue is that this thread was started in an attempt to deflect attention away from the islamic roots of terror and toward a fringe dweller's conspiracy theory that it is the left in all its forms that is the real source of the terrorism we face and that they have cleverly duped us into blaming islam.

562 posted on 09/23/2004 9:59:16 AM PDT by wtc911 (I have half a Snickers...it was given to me by a CIA guy as we went into Cambodia)
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To: wtc911
"However, that is not the issue here."

I guess my take is irrelevant, in that case.

"The issue is that this thread was started in an attempt to deflect attention away from the islamic roots of terror and toward a fringe dweller's conspiracy theory that it is the left in all its forms that is the real source of the terrorism we face and that they have cleverly duped us into blaming islam."

I blame Islamic terrorism for its own actions, I assure you. And it's roots run a millenium deep, sick as it is. But I do agree with the notion that Russia is still a player on the world stage, and is more than capable AND prone to use Islam's internalized hatred to play international chess.
563 posted on 09/23/2004 10:12:22 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: jb6
"Blowing holes in your arguments is becoming to easy."

The sound you are hearing is air blowing through the holes in your head.

"Blowing holes in your arguments is becoming to easy. By your reckoning, Spain is still a fascist state, after all, how could Franco or his party (granted he died) just leave power?"

If you want to talk about fascism, we'll talk about fascism; if you want to talk about communism, we can talk about communism...make up your mind.

Let's see, I talk about communism, you come back and "counter" with fascism...you need to seek remedial political system classes.

The former Soviet States are far from being completely free of communism.

Your problem is your assumption that communism died a quiet death.

My, but how wrong you are.

564 posted on 09/23/2004 10:14:28 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: wtc911

Well, we've yet to see if our system will survive. We're 250 years into it and it's not looking to stable. Half the population is leaning heavily toward socialism or out right communism. Also remember, Lincoln was a very strong leader, so was FDR who could have been a dictator, except he died and WW2 got started. It is human nature in any system to yearn for a strong government that will make things alright. Remember, after the Constitution, the Federalists attempted to pass laws outlawing criticism of the government and a limitation on the Freedom of Speech in general. Washington also used military might to crush the Whisky Rebellion, which was a revolt against taxation.


565 posted on 09/23/2004 10:19:27 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
If you want to talk about fascism, we'll talk about fascism; if you want to talk about communism, we can talk about communism...make up your mind.

Yes, lets avoid all those inconvinient facts in your argument and anything but the narrowly defined group of facts you "allow". Sure, whatever spanky.

566 posted on 09/23/2004 10:21:28 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: Frank_Discussion

This character just started another thread that "proves" that we actually lost the cold war....delusional or a propagandist.


567 posted on 09/23/2004 10:23:15 AM PDT by wtc911 (I have half a Snickers...it was given to me by a CIA guy as we went into Cambodia)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The former Soviet States are far from being completely free of communism.

Guess what, the US is far from free of communism. There's a new statue of Lenin in Seattle. Oh and then there are the really defunct idjit nations that can't get rid of communists even one bit: N.Korea, Vietnam, Cuba. They have no excuse, definitly no examples or communism international supporting them...guess they just like their ideology.

568 posted on 09/23/2004 10:23:31 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

I started a new thread on how the CIA/USA/West were duped into believing we won the Cold War by the Soviets. Specifically focuses on Golitsyn revelations, and the nasty treatment he received at the CIA.

Link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1224848/posts


569 posted on 09/23/2004 10:25:58 AM PDT by GIJoel
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To: GIJoel
Sorry but when this is all over, we may all be grateful that the Russians are still brutal.

Christian Europe survived the 1400's only because Vlad the Impaler met Mehmet the Conqueror with the 'forest of the impaled'--hundreds spikes each bearing a dead or dying Muslim soldier--and the hitherto unvanquished leader of that century's jihad turned back and went home.

To blame Muslim hill-tribes' brutality and banditry (yeah, I know it was an old communist propaganda word, but what other English word fits a culture in which kidnapping is a major industry?) on the Russian reaction to the same ignores what Muslim tribal societies are like the world over.

Tales of abuses by soldiers can be told about every army ever fielded. (we've got soldiers from Ft. Riley being charged with murder in Iraq, the Russian have the brutes reported in the article, and John the Baptist counseled Roman soldiers seeking the way of repentance not to engage in extortion. . .)

570 posted on 09/23/2004 10:33:12 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was)
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To: A. Pole

Geez!
It is indeed!


571 posted on 09/23/2004 10:39:58 AM PDT by lizol
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To: A. Pole; Destro

Thanks for pings, but I've just came home from work with terrible headache, and I think I'm going to be off today.

My brain is to exploited today to think how to respond and even more how to transalte it to English.


572 posted on 09/23/2004 10:43:07 AM PDT by lizol
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To: A. Pole; Destro

Thanks for pings, but I've just came home from work with terrible headache, and I think I'm going to be off today.

My brain is to exploited today to think how to respond and even more how to transalte it to English.


573 posted on 09/23/2004 10:43:13 AM PDT by lizol
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To: Calpernia; broadsword; Luis Gonzalez
Tho$e rea$on$, if they are the only rea$on, can be compen$ated for!

Fellas, I disagree with Luis a lot more than I agree with him (this issue being a notable exception). In fact, the sumbitch drives me nuts sometimes. However, your comments are some of the most ridiculous that I've ever read.

Luis has done more for this forum than you two ever will, and can run circles around y'all in debates. The implication that the ownership of this forum accepts bribes is offensive.

I also noticed that neither of you cheapskates appear on the FR donor list.

574 posted on 09/23/2004 11:06:59 AM PDT by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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To: Frank_Discussion
He specifically aligned us with those who wished the "carve out a chunk" of Russia, or some similar hyperbole.

There is nothing hyperbole about it at all. Read up on Brzezinsky, who has written several books outlining just such a strategy for the west.

575 posted on 09/23/2004 11:15:42 AM PDT by MarMema (next year in constantinople!)
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To: jmc813

>>>Luis has done more for this forum than you two ever will

>>>>>>>I also noticed that neither of you cheapskates appear on the FR donor list.


Bwwwhhhaaaaahhhaa


576 posted on 09/23/2004 11:21:17 AM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: MarMema

Perhaps "hyperbole" was an innacurate word. How about "accusatory rhetoric"?


577 posted on 09/23/2004 11:21:55 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Askel5

You would look great in a burqa, you mind is already dressed up in one. Be sure to bow deep to your Moloch god named Allah


578 posted on 09/23/2004 12:05:30 PM PDT by dennisw (Gd is against Amelek for all generations.)
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To: GIJoel

Joel, I’m curious what was/is role of Pope in your polish plot?


579 posted on 09/23/2004 12:10:27 PM PDT by Lukasz ("Imposing socialism on Poland is like placing a saddle on a cow." Joseph Stalin)
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To: Lukasz

I'd rather not get into that subject at the moment. But I will post on that (if you'd like) after I get home from work.


580 posted on 09/23/2004 12:21:26 PM PDT by GIJoel
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