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USAF to buy 'hundreds' of STOVL JSFs, Gen. Jumper says
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_aerospacedaily_story.jsp?id=news/jsf09144.xml ^

Posted on 09/15/2004 1:47:15 PM PDT by Spackidagoosh



The U.S. Air Force plans to buy "hundreds" of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters in the short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) configuration, a key general said Sept. 13, adding further clarity to the service's plans for the JSF variant.

The specific figure remains under review, said Gen. John Jumper, Air Force chief of staff.

"I can't give you an exact number, but it's going to be more than a handful," Jumper said at a press briefing at the Air Force Association's Air & Space Conference in Washington.

Current budget plans call for the Air Force to buy all 1,763 of its JSFs in the conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) configuration, but Jumper and Air Force Secretary James Roche announced in February that the service would like to buy the STOVL variant as well to provide close air support, particularly for Army ground troops (DAILY, Feb. 13, Feb. 17). The Air Force has said since then that the number of STOVL JSFs it buys could result in a corresponding reduction in the number of CTOL F-35s it acquires.

Roche said in May that the Air Force's revised acquisition strategy for the Lockheed Martin JSF could be finalized by the end of the year (DAILY, May 17).

Also during the press briefing, Jumper and Roche said they are becoming increasingly convinced of the need to acquire an interim long-range strike system to serve as a bridge between the current bomber force and a next-generation platform, which may not enter service for more than two decades.

The Air Force asked industry for ideas on interim capabilities earlier this year and is evaluating the responses to that request for information (RFI). A bomber version of the Lockheed Martin F/A-22 Raptor has been mentioned as one option the Air Force might pursue (DAILY, May 20, May 24).


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: defensespending; f35; miltech; usaf
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation

September 14, 2004

JSF chief confident remaining problems will be resolved

By Laura M. Colarusso


The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter weight issues have largely been resolved, but incorporating both a gun and a boom-refueling capability on the short-take-off variant has not been accomplished, top Navy, Air Force and industry leaders said today.


61 posted on 09/15/2004 5:29:44 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation; David1

3rd article from post #50...

F-35 slims down, at least on paper

Engineers make about 400 design changes to cut 2,700 pounds


11:07 PM CDT on Tuesday, September 14, 2004


By RICHARD WHITTLE / The Dallas Morning News



WASHINGTON – Engineers have devised ways to cut 2,700 pounds from the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, on paper solving a problem that slowed the $244 billion program, Lockheed Martin Corp. and government officials said Tuesday.

"Now it's a question of trying to prove it to everybody," said Rear Adm. Steve Enewold, the program's director. The Defense Acquisition Board, a high-level Pentagon panel, must sign off on the design changes.

Lockheed Martin and its partners on the program, which aims to build a stealth fighter jet in three versions for use by the U.S. and allied militaries, already are building the first plane, with final assembly in Fort Worth, Adm. Enewold said.

The weight problem arose in the short takeoff/vertical landing version, known as STOVL, designed for the Marine Corps and the British Navy but also wanted by the U.S. Air Force.

The weight reductions were obtained by making about 400 changes in the design of the F-35, with some reducing the weight by a few pounds and others by several hundred, Adm. Enewold and Lockheed executive Tom Burbage told reporters at an annual Air Force Association convention.

The STOVL plane will be heavier than the other two versions – one for flight from long runways, another for aircraft carriers – because of a "lift fan" in its midsection and a flexible exhaust nozzle that allow the plane to hover and land vertically.

The design changes to remove weight included cutting down the size of the STOVL version's weapons bay, but the plane will still be able to carry two 1,000-lb. satellite-guided bombs and two AIM-120 air-to-air missiles, Adm. Enewold said.

"It's going to be a year before all the detailed design is complete," he said.

The first flight is expected in summer 2006 and low-rate production of F-35s is to begin the next year, Adm. Enewold and Mr. Burbage said.

E-mail rwhittle@dallasnews.com


62 posted on 09/15/2004 5:32:16 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
F-35 slims down, at least on paper

Engineers make about 400 design changes to cut 2,700 pounds

I wonder what was changed and cut (besides pilot saftey). Anytime you make that many changes, you introduce too many variables into the equation.

Don't get me wrong, the F-35 looks great on paper, but I wonder if we are simply preparing for the last war, rather than looking ahead to the next one.

63 posted on 09/15/2004 5:46:19 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr

They cut the size of the vertical stabilizers and the extra strength off of the langing gear, from what I could gather.

They also (on paper) changed the materials in the engine.

Redesigning an engine "after the fact" for mere weight savings strikes me as risky, btw.

Shudder...

The F-35 has got to go.

The AWB Has Expired - Gun Owners Have Won Again For All Americans!

64 posted on 09/15/2004 5:56:02 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Pukin Dog

The B-2 is indeed a penetration bomber. But you can't compare a 70s Gruman design to Northrop's microprocessor driven B-2.

You are correct, B-1s are being used, so are B-52s. We keep the good stuff for 'strategic reserve'. As long as we are at war, we have to keep looking forward. Today's technology is tomorrow's weakness.


65 posted on 09/15/2004 6:28:01 PM PDT by ChinaThreat
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To: Southack

Have you seen gas prices lately? ....\just kidding.


66 posted on 09/15/2004 6:29:47 PM PDT by ChinaThreat
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To: Rokke
"...not a single A-10 currently operates in Iraq, because despite being an incredibly capable aircraft, they just aren't needed for the almost entirely CAS missions currently being flown in Iraq."

I believe you, but I don't understand it. I figure if you've got it, flaunt it and the A-10 in the CAS role seems like a good fit for Iraq. Has the situation moved beyond the need for the A-10? Is the CAS role now handled by Predators alone? Is the A-10 too slow for the mission?

67 posted on 09/15/2004 7:19:28 PM PDT by GBA
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To: ChinaThreat
"But you can't compare a 70s Gruman design to Northrop's microprocessor driven B-2."

How about comparing performance? RCS might give the B-2 the edge in being seen on radar, but it's slow and predictable, not to mention, expensive and single mission. Plus, beyond electronics, it has no real defensive capability.

68 posted on 09/15/2004 7:32:17 PM PDT by GBA
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To: GBA
"I figure if you've got it, flaunt it and the A-10 in the CAS role seems like a good fit for Iraq. Has the situation moved beyond the need for the A-10? Is the CAS role now handled by Predators alone? Is the A-10 too slow for the mission?"

The A-10 offers no unique capability to the Iraqi theater that requires their presence. As I said previously, CAS is now being conducted almost exclusively from medium altitude using precision guided munitions, including JDAMS, which A-10's currently don't employ. A-10's are currently being used in Afghanistan, where they are using exactly the same tactics and laser guided bombs being used by other fighters in Iraq. I am a huge fan of the A-10 and always have been. It was the ultimate CAS platform when the best CAS weapons were dumb bombs and gatlin guns. But that time has passed. In Iraq, you need an aircraft that can get to the scene of an ambush or rocket attack very quickly, and employ ordinance precisely enough to destroy the target without damaging the hospital sitting next to it. You mention the Predator...unfortunately for guys like me, it really isn't a bad CAS platform, but still not commonly used in that role. But give it time. The Predator B can carry two 500lb laser guided bombs, and that gives it a lot more destructive power than the Hellfire missiles it currently carries. Much of the time in a CAS mission is used ensuring the pilot of the delivery aircraft is sure of the target he is being directed to attack. When the commander on the ground can receive realtime video linked to him from a remotely piloted vehicle from which he can precisely employ a guided weapon against a target he selects, then we have created the ultimate CAS platform. Those days are not far away.

69 posted on 09/15/2004 7:58:37 PM PDT by Rokke
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To: GBA

How many F-14s do you think it would take to make a strike on Bejing?


70 posted on 09/15/2004 8:10:05 PM PDT by ChinaThreat
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To: Calpernia

Thanks for the ping!


71 posted on 09/15/2004 8:13:07 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Rokke

Agreed. The AF is looking ahead to the unmanned platforms. The JSF is only a replacement for the aging F-16. If the aircraft doesen't make VTOL cut, then so be it. The program will still save the services millions of dollars. I've heard talk about cuts in the F-22 also. Ridiculous. Unless they have something finished at skunkworks that we don't know about.


72 posted on 09/15/2004 8:15:10 PM PDT by ChinaThreat
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To: Southack

>>problem that slowed the $244 billion program, <<

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$1.69 billion per day since September 30, 2003. Each citizen's share of this debt is $25,062.55.

Hmmmmmm Oh Shi...


73 posted on 09/15/2004 8:44:37 PM PDT by B4Ranch (´´Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the people´s liberty´s teeth.)
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To: Rokke
Your whole post is so full of crap

You can use those same words to describe your post.

In the meantime, the Marine Corps (who is the service that knows THE most about CAS) is phasing out its AV-8B's and relying entirely on the F-18.

Incorrect. Harrier squadrons are currently deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan. Harriers will be in the FMF for a long time to come. You should spend more time at Cherry Point, Yuma, Iwakuni, Futenma and with the MEUs before flapping your gums.

74 posted on 09/15/2004 8:58:18 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: PsyOp
OV-10 are Army fixed wing aircraft.

What Army squadrons operated the Bronco?

75 posted on 09/15/2004 9:08:58 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Phsstpok
The Marine Commendant(sic) officially said that if the AF decides to drop the A10 the Marines want to pick up the program and all of the inventory.

When did Hagee say that? Source? The Marines didn't want the A-10 back in '90 when the decison was made to give some of them to the Corps and the Army; the Air Force was intent on fielding a CAS F-16, what makes you think they want them now?

76 posted on 09/15/2004 9:18:11 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham

I never stated AV-8B's weren't seeing action now. But they are no longer in production and will all be gone by 2015. But lets just assume I was completely wrong on that point. That was a single sub-bullet of post you describe as being full of crap. Why don't you refute the rest of my post to back up your claim.


77 posted on 09/15/2004 9:32:06 PM PDT by Rokke
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Comment #78 Removed by Moderator

To: Criminal Number 18F
As a ground attack plane in Afghanistan it was a failure. Due to high/hot conditions, they had to leave too much fuel and armament on the ground. They had, in the hot wx, one dumb bomb, no guns, and no loiter time. One pass and haul ass.


A Marine AV-8B II Harrier conducts an aerial refueling operation with an Air Force KC-10 A, so it can continue to provide close air support to the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) in central Afghanistan. The Harriers are deployed with the Aviation Combat Element of the 22nd MEU and recently logged their 1,000th combat hour in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. Photo by: Airman 1st Class Stephen Wendt
PhotoID: 2004630112413 Submitted by: 22nd MEU
Operation/Exercise/Event:
OEF Operation ENDURING FREEDOM
06/26/2004


A GBU-12 Paveway II 500-pound hangs beneath an AV-8B Harrier II attack jet from Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron 266 (Reinforced), the aviation combat element of the 22d Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable), finishes up attaching a 25mm gun pod to an AV-8B Harrier II attack jet before the aircraft leaves for a combat mission over south-central Afghanistan.
Photo by: Gunnery Sgt. Keith A. Milks
PhotoID: 200461241030
Submitted by: 22nd MEU
Operation/Exercise/Event:
OEF Operation ENDURING FREEDOM
06/06/2004

Two tanks, rocket pod, GBU, gun pod, typically five hour missions. Looks like you're full of crap. Harriers are currently deployed to both Afghanistan and Iraq. "Experts" like you should actually spend some time at Kandahar before flapping your gums.

22nd MEU Harriers mark 1,000 combat flight hours

79 posted on 09/15/2004 9:48:33 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Rokke
the Marine Corps (who is the service that knows THE most about CAS) is phasing out its AV-8B's

Again, you're full of crap.

80 posted on 09/15/2004 9:56:07 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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