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To: Criminal Number 18F
As a ground attack plane in Afghanistan it was a failure. Due to high/hot conditions, they had to leave too much fuel and armament on the ground. They had, in the hot wx, one dumb bomb, no guns, and no loiter time. One pass and haul ass.


A Marine AV-8B II Harrier conducts an aerial refueling operation with an Air Force KC-10 A, so it can continue to provide close air support to the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) in central Afghanistan. The Harriers are deployed with the Aviation Combat Element of the 22nd MEU and recently logged their 1,000th combat hour in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. Photo by: Airman 1st Class Stephen Wendt
PhotoID: 2004630112413 Submitted by: 22nd MEU
Operation/Exercise/Event:
OEF Operation ENDURING FREEDOM
06/26/2004


A GBU-12 Paveway II 500-pound hangs beneath an AV-8B Harrier II attack jet from Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron 266 (Reinforced), the aviation combat element of the 22d Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable), finishes up attaching a 25mm gun pod to an AV-8B Harrier II attack jet before the aircraft leaves for a combat mission over south-central Afghanistan.
Photo by: Gunnery Sgt. Keith A. Milks
PhotoID: 200461241030
Submitted by: 22nd MEU
Operation/Exercise/Event:
OEF Operation ENDURING FREEDOM
06/06/2004

Two tanks, rocket pod, GBU, gun pod, typically five hour missions. Looks like you're full of crap. Harriers are currently deployed to both Afghanistan and Iraq. "Experts" like you should actually spend some time at Kandahar before flapping your gums.

22nd MEU Harriers mark 1,000 combat flight hours

79 posted on 09/15/2004 9:48:33 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Dude, I was there on the ground and had these gimmicks in support. They should stick to flying airshows and impressing the public with all the noise they can make standing still.

I also worked in FOB for a while, and in CJSOTF for a week or so after my medevac; I saw what they could do, at least for our teams in their camps or on the road. One pass, one bomb, haul ass. Looks like the one in your refuel picture is carrying a rocket pod and gun and the Paveway 500-lb -- we never had 'em with rockets. They were carrying defensive pods and (one?) Sidewinder AAM instead. I have some pics of them from the ground but I might not be able to make out what is on the stations (you know the picture -- a little dart-shaped speck in the middle of a bunch of blue sky).

Paveway requires someone on the ground (or in another aircraft) to lase. Early 1970s technology and not accurate enough to use danger close, unlike, say, the GBU-31. Which this airshow queen can't lift and couldn't program if it did. I'm surprised that any Paveways are still around, but not surprised that it's the Marines that are stuck with them. I guess it's what you do if they're not going to rewire the Harriers for JDAMs, now that some smaller ones are coming on line like the GBU-38 (now THAT would be the ticket for troops in contact).

Our Harriers carried regular slick bombs, what is it, MK-83 1,000 lb, one each. I know what they had for ordnance from listening to the flight leader tell us: "Callsign, flight of two Harriers, one MK-83 each, tell us where you want it and we're outa here."

I will say this for the Marine Harriers -- the pilots are good. The bombs might be dumb but in open terrain they can put them where they need to go. If only we always had open terrain! And in very restricted terrain, deep valleys etc., any kind of air support is hard.

"Five Hour Missions" -- only by air refueling. How many times do they have to hit the tanker? Anyway, that doesn't translate to anywhere near five hours over troops in contact, because the distances are large and the tanker has to orbit someplace safe (I don't want to get more specific than that). So if they have the tanker, they have one pass and have to haul ass to the tanker. But they're winchester anyway! If there's no tanker up, or if it has other priorities, then what's flight duration? 45 minutes? That doesn't even get them to the team in contact and back.

There was no MEU over there when I was there, so maybe they weren't being resourced or something, but we would rather have in this order: A-10s, Apaches (which are also load limited by the altitude, and also can't hang around), anything with JDAMs, AC-130 (depending on terrain), Euro F-16s, and dead last, Harriers. Which were still better than the 60mm mortar and small arms we could take with us.

Most balls? B-1 crews who came down on the deck for us. We also got them to "boom" a valley. When we were done intimidating people, we paid for a lot of broken windows.

Least balls? slick C-130 pilot who called out ground fire in a secure area. (There was no ground fire. Our guys were standing there watching him depart. I think he wanted a medal or something, or overreacted to a glint) and the whole command running the C-130s. If you wanted something hauled, you needed to get the MC-130s to do it cause for the USAF trash haulers, the runway was too rough, the crater wasn't fixed right, there were too many enemy in the hills, I lost my combat vagisil, it just went on and on....

We had no naval air apart from the Harriers. Guys before me who had naval air liked it, particularly F-18s and Bombcats with JDAMs. They had problems because we were so very far from the sea. At least the Marines were willing to base their Harriers in country, I'll say that for them.

As far as Kandahar is concerned, I did spend three days there waiting for a ride to where the war was, in Nov. 2002. Dull place, not much happening then. Sherzai the warlord has a nice junkyard, and some Marines that had been there earlier had put a porta-potty in the middle of a burnt-out Antonov, which I thought was funny. The 82nd and Romanians were there and the Marines gone at the time.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F


83 posted on 09/16/2004 7:39:19 AM PDT by Criminal Number 18F (The Original Documents? I saw Mary Mapes typing furiously last year....)
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