Killian Secretary Said Typewriter with superscript was an Olympia

Dalllas Morning News ^ | 9/15/2004 | Peter Slover

[ceo-vrwc]

Mrs. Knox said signs of forgery abound in the four memos.

She said the typeface on the documents did not match either of the two typewriters that she used during her time with the Guard. She identified those machines as a mechanical Olympia typewriter and the IBM Selectric that replaced it in the early 1970s.

She spoke fondly of the Olympia, which she said had a key with the "th" superscript character that has been the focus of much debate in the CBS memos.

Beyond that issue, experts have said that the Selectric and mechanical typewriters such as the Olympia could not produce the proportional spacing found in the disputed documents.

[Bob]

One possible explanation would be that Lt. Bush had not taken his physical by the end of the month of his birthday the year before. If he was 10 months overdue, it would account for an urgent memo and a direct order to take care of it ASAP.

If he really had been ten months overdue for his flight physical, he would have already been grounded many months earlier.

[passionfruit]

I suspect that this woman's dislike of President Bush was the basis for the false memo's. I read that she only came forward because she heard the republicans in the Bush administration saying that the information in the memos was false, and that made her mad. She came forward to object to the Bush Administration, not to correct the memogate issue. I also read that she said she didn't vote for Bush in 2000 because she didn't feel he was qualified. She sounds like a partisan democrat who blathered at length to anyone who would listen about GWB. She didn't have any memo's, and so one of the members of her audience created some memos to fit the story she was telling.

She is the only one now saying that the content of the memo's is accurate.

This is just my theory, but I think that's what happened.

[Mamzelle]

Now we know how Dan'll spin it:

These documents have proven questionable but they are based on other documents that may have existed at the time...

They're not authentic, but they could have been authentic.

After all, we have "Cute Little Old Lady" here to ramble on adorably. Does anyone have any unkind remarks to direct to this old ba---er--Cute Little Old Lady? I thought not. Not only is she cute, but isn't she kind of feisty? We like feisty and cute little old ladies...

[Republican Red]

I read earlier today that this old lady was in a typing pool and not Kilian secretary - this according to Killian's son.

She also never met President Bush and couldn't comment on his service. However, she did comment that the memos contents were true - AGAIN, not because she knew of President Bush but because that's what all the rich kids parents did back then.

Is CBS placing their hopes on her now????

[NavySEAL F-16]

The images won't copy. If you want to see the documents, you'll need to go to hs site.

http://paxety.com/Blog/index.html

Computers are the only thing I know that can chew up money faster than large format photographic equipment. - Joe Lipka (from The Unblinking Eye)

The Blog

Rathergate - The OlympiaTypewriter Question
Tuesday, September 14, 2004

The Dallas Morning News found and interviewed Marian Carr Knox, the secretary to Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, and she says she never typed the CBS-Bush memos. She says she would have been the one to type them, and that, in her office, she used an Olympia manual typewriter - and only later an IBM Selectric.

I have an Olympia desk type typewriter of proper vintage, so I pulled it off the shelf and took a look. It looks just like the one on mytypewriter.com.  One item of dispute is whether the numeral one on the CBS-Bush documents was typed with a separate numeral one, or by using the ell key. On the Olympia, there is no separate numeral one.

Another point of dispute is whether the superscript "th" contained in the CBS-Bush documents could have been typed. Ms. Knox says her typewriter had a "th" key, and indeed mine does. But as you can see from the greatly enlarged image below, the "th" on the Olympia has a striking feature - it is underscored.

There's no underscore visible on the CBS document. The character also does not extend above the 187 as does the CBS-Bush document.

I retyped the 18 August document on the Olympia. I printed out the pdf file from the CBS website, and then rolled it into the typewriter. I used the CBS document to set the margins on the typewriter, then removed the CBS document, rolled in a fresh sheet of paper, and typed away. Here's the result:

Now I'm not as good a typist as Ms. Knox probably was. I got an extra space between the 18 and August, but still, you can see the spacings are entirely different than the CBS document.

I'll admit I'm not an expert of any kind on these matters. I'll be happy to hear comments by email pages-8t-paxety-dot-com.

 

[AzSteven]

no one should place their trust in this decrepit old taxeater.

Be careful - she said she liked the Olympia typewriter. I used one of those things in college ROTC, and you pretty well needed sledeghammer fingers to get the keys to depress. If she liked and used the Olympia, she probably has a build like Popeye, and could beat us all to a pulp!

[pawdoggie]

I'm beginning to think that this woman maybe one of the "sources" from whom CBS claims to have "corroborated" the information in the forged memos. Her "recollection" of the "General Staudt's influence" could explain how that story ended up on one of the forged memos (albeit the memo's actual author had to "adjust" the date of the "application of influence" somewhat to fit the "ordered to take the flight physical" memo). Since much of this story revolves around typed memos, and since Marian Carr Knox was apparently recognized as the unit secretary, it's strains credulity to believe that CBS hadn't spoken to her; but because of the risk that she might denounce the memos themselves as forgeries, it's not likely that she was permitted to see the copies of the memos. Of course her partisanship in this matter is firmly established by the reported "Bush was selected, not elected" remark.

[grey_whiskers]

You wrote:

"She's 86 and probably doesn't remember what she had for breakfast this morning."

That is a little extreme, and might lend credence to the
stereotype of cold-hearted Republicans.

That being said--

another thread on Free Republic mentioned (I believe Boston Globe) article, quoting an MD who stated that
Bush's malapropisms are consistent with early-onset
dementia.

And the MSM, during the Swifties controversy, tried
to do moral equivalence on the discrepancies between
Rasmussen's account and the Swifties, blaming it on
'fog of war' and '30 years ago'. Why are they conveniently
forgetting this argument when the subject is an
86-year old woman? Politeness, setup of Republicans
as prior paragraph, or hypocrisy?

[blindmoron]

Her geriatric specialist helped her to recover these memories. Also as a child, she was molested by Bush senior.

[clyde260]

Thurs. & Fri. National FReep CBS Days! A Call To ARMS! FRee Republic ^ | 9/14/04 | Clyde260

[mc5cents]

I don't, but if I did I'm sure I would "speak fondly of it". That was such a weird statement...to speak "fondly" of a typewriter.

Yea. Methinks the lady doth praise too much, to parphrase that old Shakesphere chestnut.

[longtermmemmory]

Where was her outrage in 2000?
Where was her outrage in 2002?
Where was her outrage in Texas governor races?
Where was her outrage in Bush's congressional race?

She is a phoney.

[NathanR]

"She spoke fondly of the Olympia, which she said had a key with the "th" superscript character that has been the focus of much debate in the CBS memos."

Looking at documents released by W's campaign, it is clear that they had a typewriter with a 'th' key. However, they used it as "111th", not as an actual superscript.

[tophat9000]

Sound like she a nice lady but grew up an FDR party line Dem

And what ever the party tell them about Republican is true… absolutely true … they will believe what ever there told to believe

I got two uncles both in there 80’s like this….. absolutely party line dems… there greatest guy’s in the worlds…. But when it comes to politics and Republican they will tell you things with a straight face that are so outrages and off the wall… just total whopper “fishing stories”

[alloysteel]

Olympia typewriters, like all manual typewriters of that era, came in two font sizes - Pica, ten characters per inch, or Elite, 12 characters per inch. Most likely the one used by the military was the Pica type size. Mechanical limitations of manual typewriters precluded kerning, or the proportional spacing of letters. Each manufacturer had a distinctive type, and a sharp eye could identify the make and model of the typewriter that typed a particular letter. In addition, microscopic differences in the typeface on a particular machine were as unique as fingerprints, which was the link of evidence that tied the testimony of Whittaker Chambers to the exposure of Alger Hiss, in the infamous "Pumpkin Papers".

[Princess G]

I searched on Google- EBay has Olympia Typewriters for sale.

[Geezerette]

Oh, hey!! I speak very fondly of the CPT (Computer-Powered Typewriter) that I used from 1978 to 1991, before my company gave me a "real" computer with WordPerfect.

g

[Hank All-American]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure a "th" key is necessarily a "superscript." Doesn't the "th" have to be raised above the line of type to be "superscripted." A "th" key like the Olympia has just makes a little "th." Raised, perhaps, but I don't think it's above the line of type at all.

[bootless]

OK, so what about the curly quotes?

[mabelkitty]

I don't know, but I'm quite certain it did not have proportional spacing and kerning.