Memos on Bush Are Fake but Accurate, Typist Says

NYTIMES ^ | 09/15/04 | Maureen Balleza

[Pikamax]

September 15, 2004 Memos on Bush Are Fake but Accurate, Typist Says By THE NEW YORK TIMES

OUSTON, Sept. 14 - The secretary for the squadron commander purported to be the author of now-disputed memorandums questioning President Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard said Tuesday that she never typed the documents and believed they are fakes.

But she also said they accurately reflect the thoughts of the commander, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian, and other memorandums she typed for him about Mr. Bush. "The information in them is correct," the woman, Marian Carr Knox, now 86, said in an interview at her home in Texas. "But I doubt,'' she said, pausing, "it's not anything that I wrote because there are terms in there that are not used by Guards, the format wasn't the way we did it. It looks like someone may have read the originals and put that together."

"We did discuss Bush's conduct and it was a problem Killian was concerned about," Mrs. Knox said. "I think he was writing the memos so there would be some record that he was aware of what was going on and what he had done." But, she said, words like "billets," which appear in the memorandums, were not standard Guard terms.

Mrs. Knox, who was the secretary for the squadron at Ellington Air Force Base from 1957 to 1979, said she recalled Mr. Bush's case and the criticism of him because his record was so unusual. Mr. Killian had her type memorandums recording the problems, she said, and he kept them in a private file under lock and key. Asked about her politics, she said she had never voted for Mr. Bush.

Mr. Killian died in 1984; his widow and son have said that they did not find any memorandums among the private effects they cleared from his office after his death. Mr. Killian's son, Gary, who also served at the squadron and who initially thought that the signatures on the documents matched his father's, has come to believe they are fakes, and said he doubted Mrs. Knox's account, though he recalled her fondly.

"She's a sweet old lady, but she's wrong and it didn't happen,'' he said. "I always thought well of her, and I know my dad would have also, but she's a sweet old lady.''

Mrs. Knox's comments add to the mystery around the four memorandums that were reported by CBS News last Wednesday, which indicated that Mr. Bush had been suspended from flying because he failed to meet standards and report for a physical examination, and that Mr. Killian felt pressure to "sugar coat" his rating because the young Lieutenant Bush, then the son of a congressman, was "talking to someone upstairs."

Executives at CBS said Tuesday that they continued to stand by their statements that they believe the documents are authentic, despite the new questions, and concern from others inside the network, and a report on ABC News that

two more experts whom CBS News had consulted to authenticate the documents for its report said they had expressed concerns about the documents' authenticity to the network's producers.

When questions about the documents first arose last week, the anchorman Dan Rather said at least four experts had helped convince the network of their authenticity.

But the network has continually declined to provide the name of more than one of those experts. That one, Marcel B. Matley, said in interviews that he validated only that the signature on the documents was Colonel Killian's. But, he said, he did not vouch for the documents themselves and could not rule out that the signature had been cut and pasted from onto the records from known documents of Mr. Killian.

Tuesday two more experts came forward and said they had been consulted by CBS. One, a forensic document examiner from Texas, Linda James, said in a telephone interview with The New York Times that she noticed indications that the two documents she inspected were the product of a word processor and relayed that to the producers.

"I had questioned the superscript on there," she said, referring to the raised letters that appear after the number 111 to indicate the name of the flight squadron, adding she also had some questions about what she believed were some inconsistencies in the documents' signatures. She said she was awaiting more documents and more type samples to draw a stronger conclusion but with time running out she referred the network to another expert, who officials at CBS identified as Mr. Matley.

Ms. James first made her comments last night on "World News Tonight'' on ABC. The newscast also presented a second document expert, Emily Will, who said she raised still more serious concerns about the authenticity of a document she inspected for CBS's producers.

ABC News quoted Ms. Will as saying she urged the network producers not to rely on the documents as late as the night before the report was set to air and that she had questions "as to whether it could have been produced by a typewriter."

The women's accounts seemed to undercut CBS network officials' previous denials that producers had questions about the documents' authenticity just one or two days before the report was shown last Wednesday night.

Betsy West, a senior vice president of CBS News, said Tuesday the network continued to stand by its story and that Ms. Will and Ms. James were "peripheral" to its reporting. And, she said, neither woman offered conclusive opinions.

"Emily Will did not implore us to hold the story, she was not adamant in any way," Ms. West said. "She raised concern about the superscript "th," which we discussed with the other experts."

Ms. West said Ms. James similarly "raised no objections."

Officials at CBS News said on Tuesday that they would at some point in the day provide the name of a document expert who expressed confidence in the records' authenticity before the report was broadcast. But they did not do so, and Ms. West declined to say why.

Officials also did not say why they did not report doubts about the documents' authenticity in their initial report.

CBS has refused to say how it obtained the documents. But one person at CBS, who spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed a report in Newsweek that Bill Burkett, a retired National Guard officer who has charged that senior aides to then-Gov. Bush had ordered Guard officials to remove damaging information from Mr. Bush's military personnel files, had been a source of the report. This person did not know the exact role he played.

Mr. Burkett declined to return telephone calls to his home near Abilene, Tex. His lawyer, David Van Os, on Tuesday repeatedly refused to say in a telephone interview whether the officer had played a part in supplying the disputed documents to CBS. Mr. Van Os said "the real story is and should be, where was George Bush?" and that Mr. Burkett "is not the proper object of attention."

Mr. Van Os called Mr. Burkett "a man of impeccable honesty who would not permit himself to be a party to anything fake, fraudulent or phony."

Maureen Balleza reported from Houston for this article, and Kate Zernike from New York. Jim Rutenberg contributed reporting from Washington and Ralph Blumenthal from Houston.

[El Gato]

the give away was his colorful description of what should be done to Kerry,

Use him for an ablation test. Send him up in an experimental re-entry vehicle? Inquiring Minds Want to Know! :)

[El Gato]

I feel so sad when people in the twilight of their lives face death as liberals. Never recognizing the truth or accepting reality. They just went through life with blinders on. Such a shame.

I doubt the lady is really liberal, at least in the modern sense of the word. You have to remember than when this lady was forming her politics, and for decades afterwords, there were very few Republicans in Texas and virtually no Republican office holders, outside of few legislators. Most elections were decided in the Democratic primary. Also, being either a native or long time, Texan, she probably saw W's father, and W himself, as a damnyankee. I didn't arrive in Texas until '77, and then only from Nebraska, not the Yankee infested northeast. (To this day many country courthouses in Texas have a confederate soldier monument on the country courthouse grounds. Alway in the Northeast corner and facing northeast. The reason? That's the direction the Yankees came from and they might come again. This lady likely saw Bush as one of those Yankees, despite his mostly Texas upbringing (and this was before he met Laura, who Texanized him a bunch more).

IOW, the lady is a Yellow Dog Democrat, but not necessarily a liberal. One of those, like Phil Graham or Scoop Jackson, who the Party left long ago. She's just to set in her ways to really understand that.

[El Gato]

Both he and Bush are on the same Federal Recognition orders as 2nd Lt's

Those federal recognition orders (I looked at mine from the OK ANG last night) are what made Bush (and Benson) part of the US Air Force. It made them part of the ANGUS, which is a reserve component of the Air Force. Their other "hat" is as a TxANG, but it's hat rarely worn, especially for pilots. -

[jrpascucci]

NYT BS Alert! Note that in this article, she is quoted as saying "The information in them is correct".

But in the Houston Chronicle article (not in the NYT), it asserts she had 'no firsthand knowledge of Bush's time' in the TANG.

Who _knows_ what she was asserting was correct. Whether the _fact_ that GWB missed a physical (which I believe is asserted to be true, and not a point of argument), or the _contention_ that he received special treatment.

That's the very point the NYT article leaves alive, and it's the leg that Dan Rather is trying desperately to stand on.

[An.American.Expatriate]

NYT to the public:

1. Ignore the fact that someone has forged several documents that imply that the President was delinquent in his duties (etc) . . . the allegations are IMPORTANT and YOU MUST BELIEVE THEM.

2. Ignore the serious allegations made by the SBVT for which there are several witnesses and a multitude on original military documents and sworn statements. The SBVT is a front for the RNC/VRWC and are thus UNIMPORTANT and YOU MUST IGNORE THEM.

[California Patriot]

Even if the old lady's comments about Killian's attitudes are right, she is providing further reason to believe that the documents are fake. And the fakery of the documents is more important than any minor derelictions by Bush more than 30 years ago, in a chapter of his life that he DOES NOT EXPLOIT POLITICALLY.

[An.American.Expatriate]

You must return immediately to remedial obedience training!

The kind gentlemen surrounding your house right know will escort you to your our training facilities.

Soon, you will be returned to your place of residence as a happy citizen.

Good Day,

NYT Section of the Ministry of Truth

[NYCVirago]

This goes far beyond Bill Burkett. Remember, these "Bush --- Drunk Druggie AWOL" charges were raised in 2000 and in February. The DNC or their mouthpieces were involved then. They are involved now.

True. They've got nothing but rumors and smears and innuendo.

[snopercod]

Hell, I can't even remember what this is about anymore. But I am sure enjoying watching SeeBS exposed for what they are.

[First_Salute]

Adding to my Reply 92, above:

Calpundit: An Interview With Bill Burkett
February 12, 2004

...

And I left out something. George Conn is a smoker. George Conn knew everything that was happening on Camp Mabry, he picked up every rumor, he knew where everybody was, what they were doing, George knew it all. When I asked him where we were going, I believe I asked him three times in our little walk, and once I remember he said, "Trust me." There may have been a little retort at some point, but basically it was a "trust me" response, whether it was one time or three or two or whatever.

We go behind the building, headed toward the academy building, which goes behind a dormitory structure, and then we go over to the museum and we walk into the doors of the museum. The museum is an old armory, World War II-Korean War era vintage armory, which is a large structure. You walk into these doors and there's a concrete floor there with a larger open space than a high school gymnasium.

To the left of that are several offices built in Korean War style with basically little or no top to them, they're basically walled units, and offices are 8 by 12 to 10 by 12, in that size. And at approximately 30 or so feet from that on this concrete floor, or as we call it, the drill hall floor area, was a folding table, just a commercial grade folding table, and what I recognized as a — and you may know what I'm talking about. Do you know what a 15-gallon trashcan looks like?

Yeah, sure.

A metal gunbarrel style that we used for years and years in the military, that's what it was, and it was setting at the end of the table. George obviously knew General Scribner extremely well, and he says hello to him and there's little pleasantries and we walk up there, and as soon as we get there he introduces me to General Scribner, who I did not know. I said hello and very little if anything more. General Scribner was very polite, very punctual, very nice, and George carried on a conversation with him, basically asked him, OK, what are you doing, how's it coming? And obviously they had had previous conversations that he was working on files.

At that point I remember General Scribner saying that people downtown were coming out and they were going to do a book, and Bartlett and Hughes were coming out, and he'd been told to get all the files together and go through them and kind of clean them up a bit. And George said, well, what are you finding? And he says, well, he says he's been through it, and I'm paraphrasing all of this, he says, obviously lots of people have been through it, you know, there's just not as much here as I'd expected, mostly old press releases and that sort of stuff.

I'm standing there on one foot and another, very uncomfortable with this situation, I knew I'd been guided here and I knew why at that point. I was standing right next to the trash can. I mention that only for one reason, and that is my own alibi to my own conscience. I believe if I'd been one step away from the trash can I would not have done what I did, I would have been forced to make an obvious decision.

Instead I looked down into the trashcan. Underneath most of the trash — the trash level was within two inches of the top — I saw that the trash on the bottom was basically packing cartons, I do remember that there were a couple of elastic type straps and that sort of thing, and on top there was a little bit of paper. And on top of that pile of paper, approximately five-eighths of an inch thick, and Jim wanted me to estimate the number of pages and I said probably between 20 and 40 pages of documents that were clearly originals and photocopies. And it wasn't any big deal, I looked at it, it was a glance situation, and it made no sense to me at all except at the top of that top page was Bush, George W., 1LT.

And I look back at it now and I know I was troubled that those documents were in the trashcan. I did ruffle through the top six to eight pages.

And what were they?

Those documents were performance, what I term performance documents, which would include retirement points, [unintelligible] type documents, which would be a record of drill performance or nonperformance, and there was at least one pay document copy within the top six to eight pages of that stack that was in the trash….

[Taliesan]

This is all so silly. WHATEVER problems Killian had with Bush during those two years, by the time Bush was better known Killian had great affection for him, and you don't feel that way about someone you got totally jerked around over.

So it is probably true that Bush needed prodding in those last two years to fulfill his obligations, because his interest had turned to politics, that he responded to the prodding, finished his service, got an honorable discharge, and his superiors continued to think highly of him till they died.

Now let's find the forger.

[First_Salute]

Bump.

My sympathies with this guy, on how he lost to the points system of the National Guard, whereby his medical costs for service have not been covered.

Yet, he is the most probable thief who should be charged, and let the courts martial decide his fate. Ironically, it may be his chance to get health care coverage from the Army National Guard.

Maybe that's been his loss angle in this matter.

[joanie-f]

No time to respond to your several incredible posts just now, Mike. But I promise to do so before responding to anything else here. You have done your homework, and shown your research abilities, beautifully … yet again!

I just want to quickly tell you about a sad experience I had last night.

The twenty-year-old son of a friend is home from Iraq for a two-week leave, and we went over to visit with him last night. I would need hours to tell you how sad I felt after witnessing the physical and emotional difference in this young man, since his leaving for Iraq. The content of some of the hundreds of photographs he took over there, and the incredible stories he told (both horrifying and uplifting), were almost beyond description. I hope to be able to write at least something about it here sometime soon.

But one relatively superficial, and yet maddening, thing that I want to mention is this:

In virtually every picture of ‘civilized Iraq’ that he showed us, almost all of the (hundreds) of cars in the photos were Nissans. Even the brand new cars purchased for the Iraqi police department.

Nissan is ~50% percent owned by (French) Renault.

I do not know the specifics, and I would imagine that American funds paid for at least a portion (and most likely all) of those new Iraqi police cars. And I suspect they were probably obtained by lowest-bid contract. But there is something inherently wrong with this picture. And it has nothing to do with the darkroom process.

Back soon …

~ joanie

[snopercod]

Colin Powell and the rest of the traitors at the State Dept. probably worked that deal.

[Ursus arctos horribilis]

"Use him for an ablation test. Send him up in an experimental re-entry vehicle? Inquiring Minds Want to Know! :)"

Very close.

It went somewhat along vividly offcolor line of, if they would have had Kerry, the outcome would have been somewhat different and the chimp would not have made history .

[Euro-American Scum]

I would need hours to tell you how sad I felt after witnessing the physical and emotional difference in this young man, since his leaving for Iraq.

Combat does take its toll on a man.

I do not know the specifics, and I would imagine that American funds paid for at least a portion (and most likely all) of those new Iraqi police cars.

Lokks like Iraq has its own version of government-subsidized offshoring.

[twigs]

Thank you for your comments. They're a big help for me in understanding this maze. She has struck me as credible in all that she's said. People ARE complex and contradictory by nature. Expectation of anything else is just foolish IMHO. I also think it's entirely possible that Killian was fond of Bush but also ticked off by his going to Alabama. I get annoyed--very annoyed--by people I love very much. Also, the president has said that he lived an irresponsible youth; I take him at his word. He has said that does not want folks rooting around his records for a reason. I personally don't care what's in them. He got his life straight and is a most excellent CIC.

I also find it interesting that this lady seems to think that someone used the real memos to produce these. Why? Maybe they were a mixture of sentiments and ultimately exonerated the charges being made against our president.

[twigs]

I heard a guest on FNC over the weekend who made the comment that it didn't matter whether the memos were forged or not; the substance was correct. IIRC, he was stationed in the TX NG during the period. I do not remember his name unfortunately. I thought then that he was the best candidate that I'd seen or heard for the forgeries themselves.

[Ethrane]

"Emily Will did not implore us to hold the story, she was not adamant in any way," Ms. West said. "She raised concern about the superscript "th," which we discussed with the other experts."

Ms. West said Ms. James similarly "raised no objections."

So let me get this straight...now it's up to the "experts" to implore CBS to HOLD a story? Are these people journalistic editors, or are they experts in document forgeries? Since they did not "implore" CBS to not run the story they (CBS) are innocent?

They asked for supporting authentication of the documents, and were told they had doubtful authenticity, and ran with the story anyway.

What kind of nonsense is that? CBS deserves anythign coming at them for this.

[Eva]

It's obvious that the fraud came out of Texas, but it was an orchestrated effort with multiple players, who were desperate to substantiate old allegations that were never backed up by any evidence. My guess is that the guy who heads that 527, Texans for truth and his buddies at MoveOn made the actual documents, using information from multiple sources. I believe that they passed the documents to the Kerry campaign and told them to use them as they saw fit, which was to disperse them to CBS and USA Today. The memos were only the first of a two part hit on Bush that was planned. The second part was to be the October Surprise, the release of another document, which indicates that there was another pilot that was grounded at the same time as Bush, for using cocaine, and that Bush was guilty by association, but his records were scrubbed. (I learned all this on DU)