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The Evidence Against Rather
free republic ^ | 11 Sep 04 | self

Posted on 09/10/2004 7:18:39 PM PDT by SkyPilot

Mods and Jim,

I hope you will forgive me, but no one seems to have posted this in one inclusive thread before. This is a list that has been circulating the blogs regarding the evidence of forgery of the CBS documents.

OK? Here we go:

_________________________________________________________________

Some have already been clarified, but here are the running discrepancies:

1. proportional spacing not generally available (no confirmation this type of technology was available at TANG)

2. CBS admits that it does *not* have the originals, but only original documents can be proven to be real; copies can *never* be authenticated positively...repeat: only original documents can be proven real. CBS never had the originals, so CBS knew that it was publishing something that couldn't be assured of authenticity

3. superscripts not generally available

4. Small "th" single element not generally available (not common, but available. Highly unlikely the machines were available at TANG)

5. 4's produced on a typewriter are open at the top. 4's on a word processor are closed. Compare the genuine Bush ANG documents, where the 4's are open at the top, to Rather's forgeries, where the 4's are closed at the top

6. Smart quotes. Curved apostrophes and quotation marks were not available – only vertical hash marks.

7. The blurriness of the copy indicates it was recopied dozens of times, common tactic of forgers (confirmed by CBS).

8. Signature block. Typical authentic military signature block has name, then rank, then on the next line the person's position. This just has rank beneath the name.

9. Margins. These look like a computer's unjustified default, not the way a person typing would have done it. Typewriters had fixed margins that “rang” and froze the carriage when typist either hit “mar rel” or manually returned carriage.

10. Date inconsistent with military style type. Date with three letters, or in form as 110471.

11. Words run over consistent with word processor.

12. Times Roman has been available since 1931, but only in linotype printshops...until released with Apple MacIntosh in 1984 and Windows 3.1 in 1991.

13. Signature looks faked, and it cut at the very end of the last letter rather than a fade when pressure would have been released.

14. No errors and whiteout (CBS used copies)

15. No letterhead

16. Exact match for Microsoft Word Processor, version disputed, but converted to pdf matches exactly.

17. Paper size problem, Air Force and Guard did not use 8 1/2 x 11 inch paper until the 1980s.

18. Overlap analysis is an exact match (see #15).

19. Absence of hyphens to split words between lines, c/w 1970's typewriter. (see #8)

20. 5000 Longmont #8 in Houston Tx. does not exist (actually does exist, but Mr. Bush had already moved TWICE from this address at the time the memo was written).

21. Box 34567 is suspicious, at best. This would not be used on correspondence, but rather forms. The current use of the po box 34567 is Ashland Chemical Company, A Division of Ashland Oil, Incorporated P. O. Box 34567 Houston (this has been confirmed by the Pentagon, per James Rosen on Fox News)

22. It would have been nearly impossible to center a letterhead with proportional spacing without a computer (not impossible, but for Killiam, who did not type, improbable).

23. Bush's grade would be abbreviated "1/Lt" not "1st Lt"

24. Subject matter bizarre

25. Air Force did not use street addresses for their offices, rather HQ AFLC/CC, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433.

26. Kerning was not available

27. In the August 18, 1973 memo, Jerry Killian purportedly writes: "Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush. I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job." but General Staudt, who thought very highly of Lt. Bush, retired in 1972.

28. Language not generally used by military personnel.

29. Not signed or initialed by author, typist, or clerk.

30. Not in any format that a military person would use, e.g. orders not given by Memo.

31. Is the document original or a copy of an original? Why all the background noise such as black marks and a series of repeated dots (as if run through a Xerox).(Rather explained his document was a photocopy-brings up additional questions of how redacted black address was visible from a several generation copy)

32. The Killiam family rejected these documents as forgeries. Then where did the “personal files” come from if not the family?

33. Why no three hole punches evident at the top of the page?

34. Mr. Bush would have had automatic physical scheduled for his Birthday – in July! He would not have received correspondence.

35. Why is the redacted address of Longmont #8 visible beneath the black mark? This would have been impossible after one copy, but it would be visible if the document was scanned.

36. Why were these exact same documents available for sale on the Internet y Marty Heldt, of leftist web site Tom Paine, as early as January 2004? Is this where CBS obtained their copies?

37. Acronym should be OER, not ORET.

38. Last line of document 4 "Austin will not be pleased with this" is not in the same font and has been added! 39. Handwriting experts are not document experts – apples and oranges.

40. Lt Col Killian didn't type

41. The forged documents had no initials from a clerk

42. There was no CC list (needed for orders)

43. Subject line in memos was normally CAPITALIZED in the military

44. The forged documents used incorrect terminology ("physical examination" instead of "medical")

45. There was no "receipt confirmation box" (required for orders)

46. The superscript "th" in the forged documents was raised half-way above the typed line (consistent with MS Word, but inconsistent with military typewriters which kept everything in-line to avoid writing outside the pre-printed boxes of standard forms).

47. Regarding superscript - typewriter example had it underlined in the keystroke but the forged document doesn't.

48. May 4, 1972 "order" memo and the May 19, 1972 "commitment" memo typeface doesn't match the official evaluation signed 26 May 1972. Or does the TxANG have a new typewriter just for Col. Killian's memorandum


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 60minutes; bushguard; cbs; documents; forgery; killian; rather; rathergate
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To: SkyPilot

Check out this from Robert "Corky" Cartwright, Professor of Computer Science Rice University:

"I am a Professor of Computer Science at Rice University who has followed the evolution of word processing technology over the past 30 years. A cursory glance at the "Killian documents" shows that they are forgeries, the product of a modern word processing system. Even the most powerful word processing systems available in the early 70's were not designed to produce propotionally spaced documents. Moreover, no mechanical typewriter, even with variable letter widths like the IBM Executive typewriter, could produce precise propotional spacing comparable to a modern word processor."

"So in 1971, even the most powerful available computer systems were not equipped to produce documents like the Killian documents."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1212786/posts


41 posted on 09/10/2004 7:47:53 PM PDT by John Valentine ("The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein)
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To: SkyPilot
re: #4. someone else please confirm as I had a bad reception of Hannity's show on the radio, but I'm pretty sure Killian's son, who was there at that base from 71-79 said they did NOT have special typewriters.
He mentioned the name of the secretary and the typewriter she used- I think the Selectric? Said it had a standard type ball. Which confirms NO high-end equipment, and kills CBS's smokescreen assertion.
42 posted on 09/10/2004 7:49:50 PM PDT by Sisku Hanne (Deprogramming the left, one truth at a time.)
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To: SkyPilot
12. Times Roman has been available since 1931, but only in linotype printshops...until released with Apple MacIntosh in 1984 and Windows 3.1 in 1991.

IBM commissioned the designer of Times New Roman, Stanley Morison, to adapt the font to the Selectric in the late 1960's. I can't determine how long it took him or when it was commercially available, but your statement is not totally correct.

See:

http://journal.aiga.org/content.cfm?ContentAlias=_getfullarticle&aid=%23.%5EG%2F%0A

43 posted on 09/10/2004 7:50:07 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: SkyPilot

Excellent idea and nice work. Thanks.


44 posted on 09/10/2004 7:51:06 PM PDT by tdadams (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms... sounds like an invitation to my cousin's wedding.)
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To: John Valentine
Thank you--that is more information that is leading to the truth.

Please read my post # 30 on this --it also has significance.

45 posted on 09/10/2004 7:51:13 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

5. 4's produced on a typewriter are open at the top. 4's on a word processor are closed. Compare the genuine Bush ANG documents, where the 4's are open at the top, to Rather's forgeries, where the 4's are closed at the top

First of all I want to affirm my belief that these documents are indeed all forgeries. The fact they are proportionately spaced is most convencing.

However, regarding the 4s - the information here is wrong. I just pulled some evaluations I received in the USN 1972-1976 which I know were typed on an IBM Selectrix II (12 pitch - monospaced) because I was a Navy clerk and typed some of them myself. Well, depending on which "ball" you used - sometimes the 4 is open - other times it is not. I was surprized when I looked at these genuine documents and saw this. So, for sake of our own credibility as FREEPERS - drop the stuff about 4s always being open - it just wasn't so.


46 posted on 09/10/2004 7:51:49 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: CobaltBlue

> ... it {MS Word} DOES kern automatically somewhat.

"Moon" is not a revealing test for kerning. You want to
use letter pairs that could nest - have their character
cells overlap, but avoid glyphs touching.

"Yo" or "To" might be more revealing. If kerned, the
upper right arm of the "Y" or "T" will hang over part
of the "o".

I use Adobe FrameMaker, not Word, and can't run the tests.

Several DTP-expert contributors on the SBVFT site
dispute that kerning is present. It would not be wise
to hang much of the forgery charge on it until default
kerning in MS Word, and the presence of clear kerning
in the documents is definitely proved.


47 posted on 09/10/2004 7:53:11 PM PDT by Boundless
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To: SkyPilot
23. Bush's grade would be abbreviated "1/Lt" not "1st Lt"

Your item 23 is incorrect (reversed). The correct military form was 1st Lt.

48 posted on 09/10/2004 7:53:53 PM PDT by vox humana
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To: VRWCTexan

Gee, maybe all of the Box 34567's documents are fake.

John


49 posted on 09/10/2004 7:54:09 PM PDT by John_7Diamonds
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To: John Valentine

You can do whatever suits you best.

I will focus on the things that I am best at.

Together we can produce a superior product.

I spent almost a decade in printing, 1975-1983, and have been using computers since 1979 (punch card).

Others know a lot about military jargon. Etc.

No one issue will put this to rest.


50 posted on 09/10/2004 7:54:52 PM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: SkyPilot

I don't understand #33


51 posted on 09/10/2004 7:54:54 PM PDT by USA_Soccer (Try a better (free + open source) browser -> Mozilla Firefox @ mozilla.org)
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To: SkyPilot

Thanks for this BUMP, for later.


52 posted on 09/10/2004 7:55:33 PM PDT by clyde260 (Public Enemy #1: Network News!)
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To: SkyPilot
Seems like it's time to get the original documents and have independent forensic scientist analyze them, and report their findings...in the interest of journalism...RIGHT Dan? Right, CBS shareholders?

Maybe the Attorney General can help...you know, under CFR...Sen. McCain would be a good resource too, don't ya think?

5.56mm

53 posted on 09/10/2004 7:55:38 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: SkyPilot

Very handy.

Thank you!


54 posted on 09/10/2004 7:56:08 PM PDT by Incorrigible (immanentizing the eschaton)
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To: vox humana
Your item 23 is incorrect (reversed). The correct military form was 1st Lt.

You are correct. We (unlike CBS) must be accurate. I copied a very long list--and I have been answering many replies--but that is no excuse.

You corrected one item on the list for truth---and WE CORRECT our discrepancies.

55 posted on 09/10/2004 7:56:49 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot
I didn't see this on the list (please forgive me if it is). On the August 1 memo, in 2 places, the "th" is not small and raised, but there is a space between it and the numbers. That indicates that someone with a word processor tried to prevent the automatic changing of the "th" to small.

Seeing #16 was enough for me to be POSITIVE. There is no way all the carriage returns, word spacing would be the same. There is no doubt.

I do agree with the other poster that said we shouldn't focus on the typeface issues. There are so many other things that indicate this is a forgery.

56 posted on 09/10/2004 7:57:07 PM PDT by LizJ
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To: Sola Veritas

Is it possible that the documents were transcribed from earlier versions by Killian, at some point (after the 1970's), using a word processor?


57 posted on 09/10/2004 7:57:26 PM PDT by 4mor3
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To: SkyPilot

Add to the list:
CBS cited retired Maj. General Hodges as confirmation that the documents were consistent with Killian's opinions at the time. However, Hodges now says the discussion was entirely by phone, and CBS misled him into thinking they were handwritten notes from Killian. He thus retracts his statement.


58 posted on 09/10/2004 7:58:52 PM PDT by EternalHope (Boycott everything French forever. Including their vassal nations.)
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To: SkyPilot
So other than that, what's your evidence? I mean you've totally destroyed the source upon which the story was written on, but that doesn't mean you answered the allegations. (just kidding)
59 posted on 09/10/2004 8:00:46 PM PDT by .cnI redruM (John Kerry - bringing the B game to an A game park!)
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To: SkyPilot
This lends a HUGE United Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) against this charge.

It's actually the Uniform Code of Military Justice, not United...

60 posted on 09/10/2004 8:00:57 PM PDT by gcraig
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