Posted on 09/10/2004 10:09:35 AM PDT by doug from upland
For one expert, the jury is still out.
I was thrilled a short time ago to to have a phone call returned from the recognized expert in forensic investigation of documents. He is Dr. Philip Bouffard.
We discussed his preliminary findings "The biggest problem," he said, "is that these are terrible copies."
As of yesterday, Dr. Bouffard seemed to get aboard the feeling that the CBS Killian memos were forged. As of now, "it is a little bit up in the air." He needs to see better documents and has no idea what CBS has.
A colleage in Ottawa sent him some information yesterday about a CD ROM named "Interpol Cards." Since the 1950's, Interpol has collected and categorized type specimens. Dr. Bouffard recalled that he bought the CD back in 1983, so he checked it.
In 1972, something similar existed. He did find some font types that were somewhat similar. There is one in particular, and a few more that have the look of Times New Roman.
A machine that could have been used at the time was an IBM Selectric Composer (if I am reading my scribbled notes correctly). It was an expensive machine.
Someone from the CHICAGO SUN TIMES spoke with him. The man had a military background and knew of that machine. According to him, although some of the top brass might had had that machine, it would have taken some time to filter down to the National Guard. The superscript would have been an expensive special order. And it had 88 keys. To get superscript, you would have had to give up something else.
Some of the problems Dr. Bouffard still see are the "th", the auto centering, the vertical legs of the capital "M" and the crossing of the "F" - whether is was higher or lower.
Dr. Bouffard wonders if Killian kept just these memos or whether there are others. To be definitive, he needs to see the originals.
Last night I pulled out my old 201 Army personnel file. I looked through over 200 pages of documents, most done on a standerd military issue IBM selectric typewriter (still in common use through the 80's in most units). No super scripts anywhere. No proportional spacing or letting. No sharp curly apostrophes. Plenty of overstikes, dropped letters and uneven alignment.
I've also had 15 years experience using many word-processing programs for both Mac's and PC's. I can say, catagorically, that these documents are forgeries.
I can also say that the person who made them 1). was never in the military and, 2). has never used a manual typewriter. If they had, they would have known better.
You don't need to be a forensic expert to nail this one down. Rather should be fired. The man is obviously senile. Bush ought to sue him for defamation.
You'd still have to explain how the line breaks are identical to that when retyping the document in MS Word and how the formatting of the th is the same as in word (that is to say, where Word automatically formats the th into a superscript and where it leaves it on the same line are exactly identical to the way the th is left in normal mode in some parts of the memo and superscripted in others. This document is a complete forgery.The forger appeared to be aware of the superscripting issue. Note entries like "1 st Lt Bush" and "147 th". There is one case where lst is not superscripted, but type "LST" without the caps and you get the same effect. Apparently, they missed a couple.
More evidence, circumstantial but strong, that these things are about as credible as Michael Moore denying that he ate the last donut.
-Eric
Thanks for the input. Some of the things may be explainable, but not all of them.
Doug, I for one am glad to see Dr. Bouffard sticking to his guns re accuracy. There has been entirely too much emotional energy involved in this already. As a doctor, I can appreciate your analogy. Not only do I want the original radiograph if possible, but I'd kinda like to do a curb-side consult with the on-duty radiologist befor committing myself to record.
The real "burden of proof" belongs to CBS.
They have not shown anyone the original documents.
They have not identified their "document expert".
They have not identified the witnesses who vouched for the documents.
They have not provided a name for the source of the documents.
Cough up the facts CBS!
I think that with all the questions, the burden has been placed on CBS.
Robin Rather, or an associate.
Did Dan Rather know about the document?
See above.
We had one of those in High School Journalism class in the late sixties. It was used to create columns of text for layouts. It allowed the students to create the photo ready layouts instead of giving all the text to the printer for layouts. It was very tough to use and only a couple of students were allowed to use it because the machine was so expensive. You had to know how many parts of a full space every letter used and then you had to figure out how to get each line of text to fit proportionally in each line. I can't imagine why you would want that in an office situation to type up government documents. It adds nothing and is hard to use.
Great input.
bookmarking
I don't believe the Bush campaign has said one word about Viet Nam, aside from congratulating Kerry on his service. Nor have they uttered a complaint regarding the press scrutiny of the Texas Guard. In response to questions, they have simply provided the documentation.
The fact is that one party wants to deal in substantive issues, while the other one does not.
We had this same situation in September, 2002 -- after the Democrats had demanded a debate on Iraq all summer long. When they got what they had asked for, we discovered they didn't want to debate the issue nor be asked to vote on it. They had merely wanted Iraq as an election issue to campaign upon.
At the same time, the administration had developed and announced the Bush Doctrine of pre-emptive war. Talk about something that warranted debate and a national dialogue! But, again, the Democrats wanted no part of a debate on this policy -- and avoided even addressing it.
It is true that we have been ill-served by the political discourse of the past four years. But the sole reason for this is the complete and total absence of a "loyal opposition".
If a substantive debate on real issues cannot be engaged because one side chooses to cheat, smear, distort and evade, it is not the fault of an administration which actually has to govern and is charged with taking action.
We are now at the point in our national political development where one of the two parties must be reformed -- in order to maintain some sort of future equilibrium. And it has become apparent that, before the Democrat party can be reformed, it must first be destroyed...at the polls.
Dear Casloy,
Regarding your experience with the IBM Selectric Composer: did it kern? If so, how was that accomplished?
Thanks,
sitetest
The personal file would be whatever LtCol Killian collected and kept in a file in his desk, and likely he would have taken home everything he wanted to keep when he retired--I know that I did that. Any MFRs that he wanted to keep would be there, and I assume that his family would have them unless they threw those things away when he died. Any such thing would be of a very private nature and I can't believe that they would allow Dan Rather-biased to sully their loved one's reputation by giving them to him, the DNC or John Kerry's campaign.
The personnel file is what is maintained at the base, at the MAJCOM and at AFMPC by the personnel function. Regulations are very precise about what will be maintained in these records, and it must pertain to the officer concerned: OERs, training reports, awards and decorations, reprimands, etc. Thus LtCol Killian's personnel record would not contain any MFRs. The base level personnel records get periodically cleaned out during record reviews and obsolete records get removed. Upon retirement the base level records are given to the retiree, I don't know what happens to the MAJCOM and AFMPC copies, but at least one or the other goes to a repository somewhere. Again, after his death his family would have his base-level records, if they did not destroy them upon his death.
Thanks for the good input, doc. By the way, my right arm and elbow have been hurting because I am on FR 18 hours a day during this political season. What do I do? :) (Seriously, I need to do some therapy for it.)
You don't care that Kerry used three extremely minor wounds, one of which almost certainly did not qualify for a Purple Heart, in order to avoid finishing his one year tour in VietNam? I care.
Keep shouting your story. Post and repost your replies. I've seen them, and I appreciate it. Keep it up.
This is not going to be an easy story for the sKerry cheerleaders to kill.
Personally, I am livid - as livid as I have EVER been in my life. I bought UNFIT FOR COMMAND today, and I will certainly be working to get our President a 2-1 margin of victory.
/
Thankyou for the interview.
Thankyou for the results of the interview.
FReepers are the best.
/
I just got interviewed by the Boston Globe.
I told them that proving the machine exists and that the font is valid, is not enough. ANYONE could have used that machine last week or last year.
They can only attempt to prove authenticity with the originals.
Double up on the meds dude.
Where your argument fails is that if you require proof that this puke vomited out by CBS is untrue, then any vomit produced by anyone must be proven to be untrue. Why must we credit the lying running dogs of CBS at all. Get a grip.
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