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Posted on 09/09/2004 8:00:50 PM PDT by timbuck2
Are editors at the AP ignoring their own newswire? Believe it or not, they have posted yet another bogus Nat'l Guard story which ignores an earlier AP story which casts doubt on the very memos used to write the subsequent story!
(Excerpt) Read more at lasvegassun.com ...
Son of Late Officer Questions Bush Memos 9 Sep. 15:35:38
Memos: Bush Refused Order While in Guard 9 Sep. 13:54:31
Timeline of Bush Service in National Guard 9 Sep. 10:01:57
Text of Memos About Bush Suspension 9 Sep. 09:59:16
Memos: Bush Suspended From Guard Flying 9 Sep. 07:32:47 --------------------------------------------------------
I believe these times are Pacific. Can somebody explain what is going on here? Please do a frame capture to preserve this incredible oversight. Is the AP unaware that virtually every expert on forged documents is labeling the Bush Guard memos as fakes? The incompetence is stunning.
-T
For those of you who think...so what...the AP is the leading source of material for middle and small size newspapers.
Here's what's going on. David Gergen is about to go on record that the timing of these questions about authenticity is very suspicious.
they have one story out that acknowledges the apparent fraud.
The wife has weighed in as well. (She's remarried now).
She says she doubts the authenticity of the documents.
AND, no one in her family gave CBS ANYTHING!
I realize the earlier story hints that the memos are fraudulent. That is why it is so strange that Terence Hunt would post another story at 18:49:42 Pacific that ignores the maelstrom swirling around the fake memos. What the heck is going on here?
Anybody have an explanation? Does the media expect to ignore the controversy and push ahead with the story? THis is an outrage!
-T
this whole story is falling apart, and it almost is criminal - Mr. Barnes or Barnett whatever his name is, he has a daughter who talked by phone to day with monica crowley, exposing her fathers lies last night on CBS. This is really getting criminal, i'm wondering who much Kerry is ivolved in this????
Here is how the headlines appear on the AP. Can somebody go here
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/beltway/
and do a frame capture and then post to this thread to preserve this?
Thank you!
-T
White House
Questions Raised About Bush Guard Service 9 Sep. 19:59:09
Son of Late Officer Questions Bush Memos 9 Sep. 15:35:38
Memos: Bush Refused Order While in Guard 9 Sep. 13:54:31
Timeline of Bush Service in National Guard 9 Sep. 10:01:57
Text of Memos About Bush Suspension 9 Sep. 09:59:16
By my math, 4 hours and 24 minutes elapsed from the time the AP story casting doubt on the memos was posted and the time Terence Hunt posted his clueless article. What gives?
-T
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Thank you UNUM! Judging from the low number of replies, not many folks find the timing of the release of this second article interesting. COuld it be that they want the damaging (to Bush) Nat'l Guard story out in the papers tomorrow and thus posted updated version of the story which just rehashes everything the forged memos contain?
Just a thought.
-T
Holy crap! I caught the bastards. Look at the time of the article. I tried to post it but screwed it up so a manager at Freep pulled it. Here is the text. Go click on the newer version with the later stamp to see the "evolution" of the story! Shouldn't the AP post a correction notice?
Today: September 09, 2004 at 18:53:04 PDT
Questions Raised About Bush Guard Service
By TERENCE HUNT
ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON (AP) -
0909bush-records New documents unearthed in the midst of the presidential campaign fill in some blanks but raise other questions about the sometimes mysterious and spotty story of President Bush's military service during Vietnam when he won a coveted spot in the Texas Air National Guard and avoided the war.
Reviving issues that have shadowed his political career, the documents show Bush ignored a direct order from a superior officer and lost his status as a Texas Air National Guard pilot more than three decades ago because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical examination.
The disclosures marked the second time in days the White House had to backtrack from assertions that all of Bush's records had been released. It also raised the specter that Bush sought favors from higher-ups and that the commander of the Texas Air National Guard wanted to "sugar coat" Bush's record after he was suspended from flying.
Less than two months before the election, the documents turned the spotlight on Bush after weeks of political attacks questioning John Kerry's military service in Vietnam. Overshadowing issues such as jobs and the economy, that controversy raised doubts about Kerry and hurt him in the polls.
Kerry, campaigning in Iowa, refused to talk Thursday about the new Bush documents. "That's for the White House to answer," he said in an Associated Press interview. Presidential spokesman Scott McClellan said, "I think you absolutely are seeing a coordinated attack by John Kerry and his surrogates on the president."
Yet, it was the White House - not Kerry's campaign - that distributed four memos from 1972 and 1973 from Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, now deceased, who was the commander of the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron in Houston where Bush served. The White House obtained the memos from CBS News, which said it was convinced of their authenticity, and the White House did not question their accuracy. There was no explanation why the Pentagon was unable to find the documents on its own.
The key questions about Bush's service are whether or where he trained in late 1972 and early 1973, why he skipped the required medical exam, and whether he was investigated or punished for skipping the exam and six months' worth of training in 1972.
Bush has adamantly denied that any strings were pulled to get him into the guard. Yet, former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes, a Democrat who now supports Kerry, has stepped forward to say he helped Bush and the sons of other wealthy families get into the guard so they could avoid serving in Vietnam.
Bush completed basic training in August, 1968, and by early 1970 was assigned as a pilot of F-102 interceptors in the 111th Squadron at Ellington Air Force Base. Killian, the squadron commander, ordered Bush in May, 1972, to undergo his annual physical, the new memos show.
Later in May, Killian said in his memo that he'd had conversations with Bush "of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November" because Bush wanted to go to Alabama to work on a political campaign.
Killian wrote that they talked about Bush getting his flight physical and that Bush said he would do it in Alabama if he remained in flight status. But he said Bush said he "may not have the time." The memo said Bush was "talking to someone upstairs" about the Alabama transfer.
The same memo also made clear that Killian was concerned about the fact that the military had spent a substantial amount of money training Bush to fly.
"I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment," he wrote in the memo.
On Aug. 1, 1972, Killian ordered that Bush "be suspended from flight status due to failure to perform to (United States Air Force/Texas Air National Guard) standards and failure to meet annual physical examination (flight) as ordered."
Killian said he wanted a formal inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the flight suspension. No records have surfaced that one was ever conducted.
A year later, in August, 1973, Killian wrote a memo that said SUBJECT: CYA.
He said that Walter B. Staudt, the Texas Air National Guard commander, was pressuring one of Bush's superiors who two years earlier had rated Bush an outstanding pilot. Killian said, "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job." Killian said that Staudt "is pushing to sugar coat" Bush's rating. "Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any feedback from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate."
Democratic Party chairman Terry McAuliffe said, "George W. Bush's cover story on his National Guard service is rapidly unraveling. ... George W. Bush needs to answer why he regularly misled the American people about his time in the Guard and who applied political pressure on his behalf to have his performance reviews 'sugarcoated'"
White House communications director Dan Bartlett said Bush did not take the physical because he was not going to be in a flying capacity in Alabama. "Those who are trying to read the mind of a person dead 20 years are stretching at best. The president at every turn did what he was told to do."
----
On the Web:
http://wid.ap.org/documents/bush/040908xfer.pdf
--
Here is the new version. Note the time difference and the content changes. Lol. These folks are truly incompetent.
Today: September 09, 2004 at 20:03:04 PDT
Questions Raised About Bush Guard Service
By TERENCE HUNT
ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON (AP) -
0909bush-records New documents unearthed in the midst of the presidential campaign fill in some blanks but raise other questions about the sometimes mysterious and spotty story of President Bush's military service during Vietnam when he won a coveted spot in the Texas Air National Guard and avoided the war.
Reviving issues that have shadowed his political career, the documents show Bush ignored a direct order from a superior officer and lost his status as a Texas Air National Guard pilot more than three decades ago because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical examination.
But the authenticity of the memos was questioned Thursday by the son of the late officer who reportedly wrote them. One of the writer's fellow officers and a document expert also said Thursday the documents appear to be forgeries.
Still, the documents marked the second time in days the White House had to backtrack from assertions that all of Bush's records had been released. They also raised the specter that Bush sought favors from higher-ups and that the commander of the Texas Air National Guard wanted to "sugar coat" Bush's record after he was suspended from flying.
Less than two months before the election, the documents turned the spotlight on Bush after weeks of political attacks questioning John Kerry's military service in Vietnam. Overshadowing issues such as jobs and the economy, that controversy raised doubts about Kerry and hurt him in the polls.
Kerry, campaigning in Iowa, refused to talk Thursday about the new Bush documents. "That's for the White House to answer," he said in an Associated Press interview. Presidential spokesman Scott McClellan said, "I think you absolutely are seeing a coordinated attack by John Kerry and his surrogates on the president."
Yet, it was the White House - not Kerry's campaign - that distributed four memos from 1972 and 1973 from Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, now deceased, who was the commander of the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron in Houston where Bush served. The White House obtained the memos from CBS News, which said it was convinced of their authenticity, and the White House did not question their accuracy. There was no explanation why the Pentagon was unable to find the documents on its own.
The key questions about Bush's service are whether or where he trained in late 1972 and early 1973, why he skipped the required medical exam, and whether he was investigated or punished for skipping the exam and six months' worth of training in 1972.
Bush has adamantly denied that any strings were pulled to get him into the guard. Yet, former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes, a Democrat who now supports Kerry, has stepped forward to say he helped Bush and the sons of other wealthy families get into the guard so they could avoid serving in Vietnam.
Bush completed basic training in August 1968, and by early 1970 was assigned as a pilot of F-102 interceptors in the 111th Squadron at Ellington Air Force Base. Killian, the squadron commander, ordered Bush in May 1972 to undergo his annual physical, according to the new memos.
Later in May, Killian said in his memo that he'd had conversations with Bush "of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November" because Bush wanted to go to Alabama to work on a political campaign.
Killian wrote that they talked about Bush getting his flight physical and that Bush said he would do it in Alabama if he remained in flight status. But he said Bush said he "may not have the time." The memo said Bush was "talking to someone upstairs" about the Alabama transfer.
The same memo also made clear that Killian was concerned about the fact that the military had spent a substantial amount of money training Bush to fly.
"I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment," he wrote in the memo.
On Aug. 1, 1972, Killian ordered that Bush "be suspended from flight status due to failure to perform to (United States Air Force/Texas Air National Guard) standards and failure to meet annual physical examination (flight) as ordered."
Killian said he wanted a formal inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the flight suspension. No records have surfaced that one was ever conducted.
A year later, in August 1973, Killian wrote a memo that said SUBJECT: CYA.
He said that Walter B. Staudt, the Texas Air National Guard commander, was pressuring one of Bush's superiors who two years earlier had rated Bush an outstanding pilot. Killian said, "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job." Killian said that Staudt "is pushing to sugar coat" Bush's rating. "Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any feedback from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate."
Democratic Party chairman Terry McAuliffe said, "George W. Bush's cover story on his National Guard service is rapidly unraveling. ... George W. Bush needs to answer why he regularly misled the American people about his time in the Guard and who applied political pressure on his behalf to have his performance reviews 'sugarcoated'"
White House communications director Dan Bartlett said Bush did not take the physical because he was not going to be in a flying capacity in Alabama. "Those who are trying to read the mind of a person dead 20 years are stretching at best. The president at every turn did what he was told to do."
----
On the Web:
http://wid.ap.org/documents/bush/040908xfer.pdf
It's also the news source for major internet providers like AOL and Comcast. What they report gets ingested by a whole lot of people.
Is this the extent of the changes? Compare the two versions above...
But the authenticity of the memos was questioned Thursday by the son of the late officer who reportedly wrote them. One of the writer's fellow officers and a document expert also said Thursday the documents appear to be forgeries.
Still,
-T
Here is the link to the original version:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/bw-wh/2004/sep/09/090902127.html
And here is the link to the new and inproved version:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/bw-wh/2004/sep/09/090902254.html
Can somebody do a screen capture? Now, if I could stop cutting and pasting for a moment, I could actually read the darn articles.
My initial thought is that they made a really lame attempt to fix the old version, but the overall article still delves into all the details of the bogus memos.
What gives?
-T
How cute.
And you saw the new shiny, happy improved version?
Today: September 09, 2004 at 20:03:04 PDT
Questions Raised About Bush Guard Service
By TERENCE HUNT
ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON (AP) -
0909bush-records New documents unearthed in the midst of the presidential campaign fill in some blanks but raise other questions about the sometimes mysterious and spotty story of President Bush's military service during Vietnam when he won a coveted spot in the Texas Air National Guard and avoided the war.
Reviving issues that have shadowed his political career, the documents show Bush ignored a direct order from a superior officer and lost his status as a Texas Air National Guard pilot more than three decades ago because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical examination.
But the authenticity of the memos was questioned Thursday by the son of the late officer who reportedly wrote them. One of the writer's fellow officers and a document expert also said Thursday the documents appear to be forgeries.
Still, the documents marked the second time in days the White House had to backtrack from assertions that all of Bush's records had been released. They also raised the specter that Bush sought favors from higher-ups and that the commander of the Texas Air National Guard wanted to "sugar coat" Bush's record after he was suspended from flying.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/bw-wh/2004/sep/09/090902254.html
Can you do a side by side screen shot so it makes it easy to see the "evolution?"
Nice catch earlier!
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