Posted on 09/09/2004 2:09:48 PM PDT by ctdonath2
Hugh Hewitt will REPLAY his interview with a typography expert in the third hour of his
show today: 8-9PM PACIFIC TIME...at 870AM in Los Angeles or over the web at www.krla870.com
I (VOA) think that this interview will also be available on the looped archive at www.krla870.com
until the start of tomorrow's show.
Awesome..any reorganization of the CIA has got to find a slot for you...DDFRI..
Good work!
bookmarking your post
Caller on Hugh Hewitt says the fact that is was not letterhead...means it would not be a criminal offence to fake this document...hm...
So Dog if we going put out CSI FR
Which WHO song fit this forum
HELLO
I prefer Law and Order over CSI
Some of Freepers can do Lennie Briscoe reset LOL!
Perhaps you are right; perhaps allowing the White House to be the only one refuting this isn't sufficient.
I just really think that there is not sufficient evidence to conclude fraud, though.
I also would prefer to hear an IBM expert weigh in on the font issue.
But perhaps I am just too inexperienced in the ways of FR. That could be it.
I'm all for screaming "fraud," but I think I'd like to base such a cry on truly expert opinion, not my own.
I don't mean to insult anyone; I think you realize that by now. At least I hope so.
http://weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?
idArticle=4596&R=9FCD2F192
Is It a Hoax?
Experts weigh in on the 60 Minutes documents. Says one: "I'm a Kerry
supporter myself, but . . . I'm 99% sure that these documents were not
produced in the early 1970s."
by Stephen F. Hayes
09/09/2004 7:20:00 PM
DOCUMENTS CITED Wednesday by 60 Minutes in a widely-publicized expose
of George W. Bush's National Guard Service are very likely forgeries,
according to several experts on document authenticity and typography.
The documents--four memos from Killian to himself or his files written
in 1972 and 1973--appear to indicate that Bush refused or ignored
orders to have a physical exam required to continue flying. CBS News
anchor Dan Rather reported the segment and sourced the documents this
way: "60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were
taken from Col. Killian's personal file," he said. The 60 Minutes story
served as the basis for follow-up news reports for dozens of news
organizations across the country. The memos were almost immediately
questioned in the blog world, with blog Power Line leading the charge.
And according to several forensic document experts contacted by THE
WEEKLY STANDARD say the Killian memos appear to be forgeries. Although
it is nearly impossible to establish with certainty the authenticity of
documents without a careful examination of the originals, several
irregularities in the Killian memos suggest that CBS may have been the
victim of a hoax.
"These sure look like forgeries," says William Flynn, a forensic
document expert widely considered the nation's top analyst of
computer-generated documents. Flynn looked at copies of the documents
posted on the CBS News website (here, here, here, and here). Flynn
says, "I would say it looks very likely that these documents could not
have existed" in the early 1970s, when they were allegedly written.
Several other experts agree. "They look mighty suspicious," says a
veteran forensic document expert who asked not to be quoted by name.
Richard Polt, a Xavier University philosophy professor who operates a
website dedicated to typewriters, says that while he is not an expert
on typesetting, the documents "look like typical word-processed
documents."
There are several reasons these experts are skeptical of the
authenticity of the Killian memos. First the typographic spacing is
proportional, as is routine with professional typesetting and computer
typography, not monospace, as was common in typewriters in the 1970s.
(In proportional type, thin letters like "i" and "l" are spaced closer
together than thick letters like "W" and "M". In monospace, all the
letter widths are the same.)
Second, the font appears to be identical to the Times New Roman font
that is the default typeface in Microsoft Word and other modern word
processing programs. According to Flynn, the font is not listed in the
Haas Atlas--the definitive encyclopedia of typewriter type fonts.
Third, the apostrophes are curlicues of the sort produced by word
processors on personal computers, not the straight vertical hashmarks
typical of typewriters. Finally, in some references to Bush's unit--the
111thFighter Interceptor Squadron--the "th" is a superscript in a
smaller size than the other type. Again, this is typical (and often
done automatically) in modern word processing programs. Although
several experts allow that such a rendering might have been
theoretically possible in the early 1970s, it would have been highly
unlikely. Superscripts produced on typewriters--the numbers preceding
footnotes in term papers, for example--were almost always in the same
size as the regular type.
So can we say with absolute certainty that the documents were forged?
Not yet. Xavier University's Polt, in an email, offers two possible
scenarios. "Either these are later transcriptions of earlier documents
(which may have been handwritten or typed on a typewriter), or they are
crude and amazingly foolish forgeries. I'm a Kerry supporter myself,
but I won't let that cloud my objective judgment: I'm 99% sure that
these documents were not produced in the early 1970s."
Says Flynn: "This looks pretty much like a hoax at this point in time."
CBS, in a statement Thursday afternoon, said it stands by the story.
The network claims that its own document expert concluded the memos
were authentic. There are several things CBS could do to clear up any
confusion:
(1) Provide the name of the expert who authenticated the documents for
Sixty Minutes.
(2) Provide the original documents to outside experts--William Flynn,
Gerald Reynolds, and Peter Tytell seem to be the consensus top three in
the United States--for further analysis.
(3) Provide more information on the source of the documents.
(A spokeswoman for CBS, Kelly Edwards, said she was overwhelmed with
phone calls and did not respond to specific requests for comment.)
Stephen F. Hayes is a staff writer at The Weekly Standard.
© Copyright 2004, News Corporation, Weekly Standard, All Rights
Reserved.
Awesome work!
Ping..
It's pretty clear to me that the document was "aged" by faxing it and photocopying it a few times. The faxing process can cause letters to offset slightly due to the fax's low resolution and slightly misaligned page.
Brit Hume covered it extensively tonight and also had experts overlap the two documents which questions it's authenticity. Also the raised 'th'after the numeral in the other document was a font not yet developed in the early 70's, raising more eyebrows.
At this point, I don't plan on communicating my displeasure to CBS any further. I will, however, let all their sponsors know exactly what I intend to do concerning their products/services (list has been posted here.) The sponsors will contact CBS and Viacom for me -- and probably to much greater effect.
LOL!
Looks like this story has legs!
I operated an IBM MT/ST (Magnetic Tape / Selectric Type) for the Army in 1972/73. It could have had the heading centered on the recorded "template" that was used for such. (I cut orders using a library of pre-recorded "boiler plate" or standard format.)
However, that setup was VERY EXPENSIVE and could never have produced the proportional space, superscript, kearning etc. The forgery is, indeed, obvious.
Did you know that the FBI has an amazing collection of every sort of typewriter font and ink old typewriters had? I've even heard they're pretty good at determining when government documents have been forged and altered. Imagine that...
Wow, that makes lots of sense. The FBI would have all that capability.
It also seems the General retired a year before one of the memos were typed.
They really have to see if those old typewriters could do that as a feature as well. LOL
Does anyone remember this about the FBI?
I understand that when a typewritten document is presented, say as a ransom note, or similar, that the FBI will take the document and identify the brand and make of typewriter which the document was typed on. I also understand that there is flaws on each key, so that the FBI will be able to identify the exact machine which it was typed on.
So, what do you think of having CBS or the WH present this to the FBI to verify that it was on a word processor, instead of a typewriter?
Bill
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