[Tacis]

Perhaps, as shoddy and mendacious as Kerry’s behavior is, the behavior of our ultra-liberal media is worse. Everything above (and a lot more) is available to the media. All the facts, documents and theory in the above is available to every investigative reporter in the nation. The above process should have long ago been followed by the media. It is unfortunate that most of the traditional media are far too interested in electing Kerry to bother with doing any fact finding or reporting of information that might dissuade the electorate, present the truth, or call on Kerry to do what they’d expect of the next applicant for the most menial job on their staff, to be honest and candid.

[cripplecreek]

Last night Bill O'reilly said that he had found anti war speeches given on college campuses by John Kerry when he was a student. This tells me that Kerry was pursuing an agenda when he went to Vietnam.

[marty60]

skerry was against the VN war BEFORE he went. Which btw he did after being REFUSED a deferment.

[EagleUSA]

Expect no unbiased behavior from the media. Expect no serious investigative journalism, like the old days. Those days are gone and they have chosen the far-left as their political icon, and their elitist arrogance keeps telling the duped portion of the public what is real and right.

It is tragic for this country that some people still believe what they read or hear in the media is credible and complete. Sad.

[Pilsner]

This is:

1. Slander

2. Dumb. Listen to the tapes of Noxon going off on Kerry. Is they ANY chance he would not have found out and brought it up if Kerry had such a blemish on his record? NO.

3. Counterproductive. There are plenty of things to knock Kerry for that can be documented. Wasting time and bandwidth on Kerry was court martialed/ Kerry was got a bad conduct discharge fantasies doesn't just use up resources better put to good uses, it gives Kerry's supporters in the MSM the chance to dismiss ALL charges against Kerry as unfounded, because some people are making clearly unfounded charges.

[dc-zoo]

I think Brinkley knows something about kerry's war record or discharge and he's aware that it will be revealed. That is why he's backpeddling.

[philman_36]

If President Bush's military records contain hundreds of pages how can anyone conclude that sKerry's would contain any less?

[RetiredArmy]

An officer cannot get a BCD. An officer gets a Dismissal from a General Courts-Martial ONLY. You cannot and do not get Bad Conduct Discharges, Dishonorable Discharges or Dismissal from an ADMINISTRATIVE action. Period.

[Rocket1968]

bump

[faithincowboys]

Where are this a-hole's med and military records. I am getting so pissed off about all this. This guy is getting a free pass.

[MineralMan]

What you propose is sheer speculation. While it makes for an interesting thought experiment, it's almost certain that it didn't happen.

In the first place, if I understand correctly, an officer cannot receive a BCD. Only enlisted personnel can receive that class of discharge, and that would have been reflected on his DD214.

I suggest you put your considerable energy and intellect into some area that's likely to bear fruit. This one's a sure loser.

[Poincare]

Young Kerry, son of a diplomat and friend of the Kennedys, would only be escorted out of the Navy with (false) decorations. If only Zumwalt were alive. Perhaps, only perhaps, Kerry's service records will have the true facts about how and why Kerry's "tour of duty" was cut short.

[meandog]

While interesting, your hypothesis is entirely groundless and counterproductive. Kerry's fitness reports are available and are, run-of-the-mill sterling with respect to how the Navy was generally rating all of its officers with the exception of the pure dirtbags at the time! Go after Kerry on his after-the-Navy exploits and record of the past two decades. His Vietnam service is a sure loser for us because, (with excepted due respect to the SBVFT) according to his Navy rating superiors, he did his job and did it well!

[Mike Fieschko]

I suggested that Kerry had a major blemish on his military record and had applied for and been granted a pardon under President Jimmy Carter’s January 21,1977, Proclamation

This pardon is for Selective Service Act violations (the draft). Since Kerry enlisted, Carter's pardon doesn't apply to Kerry.

I saw another post on freerepublic which discussed another pardon Carter issued covering discharges.

Maybe Kerry wasn’t actually court martialed. There is another possibility, a variant. It is that Kerry was issued a bad conduct discharge

I think BCDs were issued only after a court-martial, but I might be wrong. I don't remember whether a General Discharge was only issued after a court-martial. If someone was court-martialed, I believe that he could be discharged with a General, Bad Conduct or Dishonorable Discharge.

A subset of the bad conduct discharge would be a bad “spin” code on an honorable discharge.

I think spin codes stopped being put on DD214s in the mid-1970s. If you had a DD214 with a spin code, you could apply for it to be removed and your DD214 reissued without it. IIRC, getting the spin code removed was automatically granted. Spin codes went on all Honorable Discharges, so they weren't a subset of BCDs.

We know Kerry was issued a DD 214 in March 1970 even though his military obligation wasn’t supposed to end until March, 1972, a total of about 6 years

Vets from that era have posted on freerepublic (or swiftvets.com forums, I don't recall) that you got a DD214 when you were separated from active staus to go into inactive status. A DD214 is a separation document, not always a discharge document. Discharge is when you've completed all your obligations, including reserve duty. You might get a DD214 whenever your status changed (active duty --> active reserves --> inactive reserves --> full satisfaction of all obligations).

If Kerry had a less-than-honorable discharge and wanted it upgraded, he would have had to apply to the Board for Correction of Naval Records. I did some work for vets getting discharges upgraded in the mid-1970s, but not Navy vets. The BCNR has a site, but info there might be very different from what was current in the 1970s.

[steve8714]

DD 214 is only for active duty separation. There is another form for fulfillment of reserve obligation.

[boxerblues]

ping

[SunkenCiv]

FREEP THIS POLL!

"How do Vietnam War combat veterans who returned to America and then spoke out against the war deserve to be regarded in history?"

http://www.thehistorynet.com/

[Poohbah]

Kerry would not be eligible for a pardon under Proclamation 4483--any offenses committed by Kerry were against the Uniform Code of Military Justice, not the Military Selective Service Act (which only concerned itself with conscripted induction into the armed forces; once the recruit swore the oath, he was under the UCMJ).

Also, a BCD or dishnorable discharge is the result of a court-martial sentence, and cannot be imposed by a commander in the absence of a court-martial conviction. It is evidence of a felony conviction. There would be recollection of such an event by Kerry's peers and subordinates.

There's plenty of reason to despise Kerry; this one's not gonna hunt.

[MACVSOG68]

A couple of points on your theory. First, if Kerry had been court-martialed, it would have come from charges preferred by his commanding officer. Likewise, a BCD would have had to be processed through his CO. If that happened, I would think his CO would have stepped up to speak of this.

I simply cannot fathom an officer being issued a BCD for anything but the most serious of offenses. I saw nothing in your post that referenced any evidence of even a possibility of a BCD. Also, at least back in those days, hardship and medical were not separate discharges, but were either honorable or general under medical or hardship conditions.

Nevertheless, I believe that there are likely serious issues to address in Kerry's unreleased records, which may possibly be unfavorable performance reviews, letters of reprimand, etc. I would like to see those records, but will refrain from making any unsubstantiated assumptions until then.

[lilylangtree]

Release your complete military records, Ketchupman! And twerpy te-RAY-za--release your complete IRS records. What have you two got to hide, America's #2 dipsticks. Since you're #2, you gotta try harder. And who is America's #1 dipstick--why the clintoons. YYYaaaaayyyy!!!

[El Gato]

We know Kerry was issued a DD 214 in March 1970 even though his military obligation wasn’t supposed to end until March, 1972, a total of about 6 years (there is an issue of whether his agreed upon total obligation was 6 or 6.5 years). It may be they “turned him loose.” We also know that Kerry received a discharge in March, 1978 but have not seen any associated DD 214.

The March 1970, actually 03 Jan 70 effective date, is the release from active duty. You won't see a DD 214 from the transfer from inactive reserve to standby reserve. That's a mere administrative transfer within the reserve component. Officer really aren't "discharged", because they never "enlisted". Also no DD-214 upon release from the Standby reserve. There should be something, which I haven't seen, indicating resignation of his commission. They don't just "discharge" you, you have to resign your commission.