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To: Tacis
This is:

1. Slander

2. Dumb. Listen to the tapes of Noxon going off on Kerry. Is they ANY chance he would not have found out and brought it up if Kerry had such a blemish on his record? NO.

3. Counterproductive. There are plenty of things to knock Kerry for that can be documented. Wasting time and bandwidth on Kerry was court martialed/ Kerry was got a bad conduct discharge fantasies doesn't just use up resources better put to good uses, it gives Kerry's supporters in the MSM the chance to dismiss ALL charges against Kerry as unfounded, because some people are making clearly unfounded charges.

5 posted on 09/08/2004 7:54:24 AM PDT by Pilsner
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To: Pilsner
Here are some "Founded" chareges against Kerry.

Is John Kerry a war criminal? Consider the following.

After the Tet offensive North Vietnam was beaten, but with the Socialist press in America and the VVAW the North Vietnamese Communists decided to hold on.

This meant that instead of a US victory in South Vietnam and freedom for the South Vietnamese we had 10,000 - 15,000 more US deaths. America’s POW's were being tortured while listening to tapes of John "Traitor" Kerry calling them baby killers.

The VVAW, an antiwar group, which Kerry was one of the national leaders of, was receiving directions from the North Vietnamese Communist Government. VVAW in contact with in contact with NV Communist Government

The directions were on how the VVAW should protest the Vietnam War.

The interaction became so depraved, that the North Vietnamese Communist contacted the VVAW via a phone call and advised the VVAW that they were getting ready to start an attack on US troops and that the VVAW was to be prepared to increase the protests against the increase in bombing that the NV Communists were sure would happen. This put our men in further danger because of John Kerry and VVAW actions. VVAW gets directions from the VS Communists

John Kerry had no concern for the lives of his fellow soldiers in Vietnam or the POW's, John Kerry only cared about himself and his ambition to become POTUS, whatever the cost.

How many deaths of United States servicemen does John Kerry have on his hands?

How many families has John Kerry's behavior as a VVAW leader and a traitor to his country caused untold pain and suffering to?

How many unnecessary tears have been cried because John Kerry betrayed our trust to help a Communist government?

Does John Kerry still have ties to Communists in America?

John Kerry was an officer in the US Navy during his protests of the Vietnam War, having not received his discharge until 1978.

Why didn't John Kerry speak out just one time against the war crimes of his "Comrades in Arms the North Vietnamese Communists"?

Steven J. Pitkin says about his Winter Soldier testimony. “John Kerry and other leaders of that event pressured me to testify about American war crimes, despite my repeated statements that I could not honestly do so. One event leader strongly implied that I would not be provided transportation back to my home in Baltimore, Maryland, if I failed to comply. Kerry and other leaders of the event instructed me to publicly state that I had witnessed incidents of rape, brutality, atrocities and racism, knowing that such statements would necessarily be untrue.”

Winter Soldier, Pitkin recants and says he never witnessed any atrocities in Vietnam

I've also been wondering why Kerry never reported the atrocities he supposedly witnessed while in Vietnam. Maybe because Kerry may have never witnessed any atrocities while he was in Vietnam. The VVAW leaders were meeting with the North Vietnamese Communist Government, leaders of the Communist Party in Moscow, possibly the KGB, leaders of the Communist Party International in Paris, leaders of the Communist Party and last but not least the group of Communists in South Vietnam that backed the North Vietnamese Communists.

These Communist groups were directing the VVAW leaders as to what they wanted them to do, and that is what the VVAW did.

So in a nutshell, when the world communist leaders told Kerry and his group what to do, that is what they did, no questions asked.

And then if you want more:

Several of my posting concerning John Kerry, VVAW and the FBI files.

Highlights of the FBI files and John Kerry, section 7 (October 1971)

Do the FBI Files concerning the VVAW (Kerry’s antiwar group) indicate a plot to assassinate Pres. Nixon?

Here is what I have found in the FBI files re: VVAW and John Kerry

John Kerry caused a fracture in VVAW for his own selfish goals (FBI Files reveal)

Kerry, Watergate: DNC Links Caused Break-in? (Kerry lied! Still with the VVAW after February 1972)

Lets watch the film of John Kerry and VVAW members throwing combat medals over the fence

Treat as Yellow – John Kerry’s VVAW coordinating with the North Vietnam Communist Government when US forces are under attack

VVAW leader meets with Communists to discuss tactics in the US antiwar movement. Kerry’s group!
16 posted on 09/08/2004 8:02:24 AM PDT by stockpirate (Dick Morris; Before he spoke, supporting Bush was a duty one owed to the fallen. Now, it is an honor)
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To: Pilsner

So? It is a pressure point. And documents like this can leak: Kerry had his own copy. Who knows who else saw it, or has a copy?


19 posted on 09/08/2004 8:05:19 AM PDT by eno_ (Freedom Lite, it's almost worth defending.)
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To: Pilsner

Anybody doing actual research on this should shut up, because it's
1. Nasty unless proven,
2. Useless unless documented, and
3. Counterproductive unless both proven and documented.
Premature spec makes us like the "Bush lied- and kids died!" crowd.


20 posted on 09/08/2004 8:06:42 AM PDT by steve8714
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To: Pilsner
I agree that the article here verges on idiotic for the reasons you listed: it's slanderous, dumb and counterproductive.

Just an example of stupid and easily refutable statements:

We know Kerry was issued a DD 214 in March 1970 even though his military obligation wasn’t supposed to end until March, 1972, a total of about 6 years (there is an issue of whether his agreed upon total obligation was 6 or 6.5 years). It may be they “turned him loose.” We also know that Kerry received a discharge in March, 1978 but have not seen any associated DD 214.

A DD-214 is issued whenever a service member significantly changes status. Hence, when Kerry finished OCS, he received a DD-214 releasing him from his enlisted service to accept a commission. When he left active duty, he received another DD-214, and when he completed his service obligation altogether, he would have received yet another DD-214.

Somewhere in my own files I have three similar DD-214s: when I was released from the enlisted reserve to accept a reserve commission, when I completed my two years on active duty, and when I completed my entire service obligation. What's so hard for people to understand about multiple DD-214s?

28 posted on 09/08/2004 8:13:48 AM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Arabiam Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: Pilsner
3. Counterproductive. There are plenty of things to knock Kerry for that can be documented. Wasting time and bandwidth on Kerry was court martialed/ Kerry was got a bad conduct discharge fantasies doesn't just use up resources better put to good uses, it gives Kerry's supporters in the MSM the chance to dismiss ALL charges against Kerry as unfounded, because some people are making clearly unfounded charges.

Does your line of thinking also apply to the Bush was AWOL charges? Because it sure doesn't seem to apply for the MSM. Bush has released all his records, and still there is the BIG CONSPIRACY.

Lets compare track records of just one thing. Both major candidates for POTUS both served in the military during the same era, for comparible periods of time. Has either one released their military records? If so WHICH ONE? That is the man who HAS PROVED his forthrightness to the country.

As POTUS one of the most important qualities to have is trust. Some people will be partisan no matter what the proof. These are shameful people not worthy of this country. But who has proved his trust worthiness by releasing his records, while another hides behind his.

You are correct that there are many other issues to go after Kerry. But none of them are as important. KERRY IS THE ONE who has made an issue of his service. Kerry is the one who conspired with the VC. Kerry is the one who testified to the Senate, of the memories of Cambodia SEARED, SEARED into his memory. Either evrything he talks about is real, and happened, for which he is a hero. Or he is a little man trying to prop himself up as larger than life because he has a low self esteem. THAT IS NOT THE TYPE OF MAN WHO SHOULD BE IN CHARGE OF THE MOST POWERFUL MILITARY, ECONOMY, AND INFLUENTIAL COUNTRY OF THE WORLD.

Make no mistake. This is not a small matter. In the big picture, if he IS NOT what he claims to be, then this is the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE. It affects our national security, and our national sovereignty. Economics and domestic and foreign issues are small potatoes to this one issue. In fact they all hinge on national security and sovereignty.

Rant off

35 posted on 09/08/2004 8:24:16 AM PDT by mountn man
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To: Pilsner
This is:
1. Slander

Actually, in this instance, it would be libel (slander is verbal, libel written), if Kerry were not a public figure. The fact that he is means that he is subject to such charges without legal recourse. That is why Ted Kennedy can get on the floor of the Senate and accuse the President of going to war for oil. If the court-martial charge is true, then both slander and libel are wrong. And any attempted defense would be predicated on Kerry releasing his military records... something he has refused to do.

2. Dumb. Listen to the tapes of Noxon going off on Kerry. Is they ANY chance he would not have found out and brought it up if Kerry had such a blemish on his record? NO.

Yes. Plenty of chances. There are many facts about Kerry's service and actions after the war that were not known at the time. Why didn't Nixon bring up the phony Purple Hearts, or the Winter Soldier liars, or Kerry meeting with the Viet Cong, or... the list goes on and on.

3. Counterproductive. There are plenty of things to knock Kerry for that can be documented. Wasting time and bandwidth on Kerry was court martialed/ Kerry was got a bad conduct discharge fantasies doesn't just use up resources better put to good uses, it gives Kerry's supporters in the MSM the chance to dismiss ALL charges against Kerry as unfounded, because some people are making clearly unfounded charges.

I seem to remember the same arguments about the Swift Vets, and they single-handedly blew Kerry's "Reporting for Duty" BS out of the water. There is a compelling reason to ask Kerry how a 6 year service takes 10 years to complete. What happened to those missing four years. Did he re-enlist after going before the Senate and calling the US Military the Army of Ghengis Khan? Or does he have another reason. Perhaps a court-martial that was then covered by Carter's amnesty, letting Kerry re-apply for a discharge. It is a legitimate question given the issues involved. Can a CIC have a court-martial in his background? It would help explain why Kerry won't make his records public. The electorate deserves an answer, and as long as Kerry refuses to release all of his records, he has only himself to blame.

43 posted on 09/08/2004 8:45:03 AM PDT by bootyist-monk (<--------------------- Republican Attack Machine)
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