KERRY COSPONSORED BILL BANNING GUN HE WAVES! (Dukakis Moment?)

Drudgereport.com ^ | 9/7/04 | Drudge

[truthandlife]

Dem presidential hopeful John Kerry was seen this weekend touting a gun which would have been banned if legislation he co-sponsored became law...

KERRY COSPONSORED BILL BANNING GUN HE WAVES!

[Mr. Wright]

Rush reports that he supposedly made the comment that
it was too bad that he could not take the gun to the debates.
Imagine if GW made that statement - the press would be all over GW like a cheap suit!

[AuH2ORepublican]

[National Review's The Corner says that the shotgun Kerry was holding does indeed have a "pistol grip" as defined in the bill Kerry co-sponsored:]

RE KERRY'S GUN [Dave Kopel]

S. 1431, co-sponsored by Sen. John Kerry, says that an "assault weapon" is any semi-automatic rifle or shotgun with a "pistol grip." According to the bill, "(42) PISTOL GRIP- The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip." Kerry's new semi-automatic gun has a protrusion below the stock, which a person could grip. The protrusion is not a "pistol grip" in the ordinary meaning of the term, but it is a "pistol grip" as defined by S. 1431.
Posted at 03:04 PM

[NRA2BFree]

This is what my pistol grip looks like. It would definitely be included in the ban. The stocks are interchangeable.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Where's the definition? It just says "conspicuously protrudes." How do you define that precisely, counselor?

---

The ATF has essentially defined it as a "thingy that protrudes far enough to be gripped, apart from the neck of an ordinary stock." (My terms.) We lawyers have learned that the law is what the courts have interpreted it as, and this is what they have at this point.

A lump that slightly protrudes at the bottom of a conventional stock does not comprise a "grip". Nor do stocks with nearly vertical grips, when the butt extends from the lower end of the grip.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Kerry's new semi-automatic gun has a protrusion below the stock, which a person could grip.

---

I disagree. That little knob/lump can not be gripped in any useful manner. The neck of the stock must be gripped, just as with all conventional stocks other than pistol grip stocks.

[libstripper]

Drudge is on target. The gun given to Kerry is a semiautomatic shotgun with a pistol grip, a type of gun that would have been banned.

[Richard-SIA]

Kerry poses with an O/U, the gun he was presented was an auto!

[Rakkasan1]

maybe Letterman needs to have a "know your presidential
shotguns" skit...?

[John Jorsett]

That is NOT a pistol grip.

[Robert357]

The "pistol grip" definition changed under Kerry's bill.

You are right, that could mean just about anything. However, I think it is a stretch to say that Kerry is swinging a shotgun that would have been banned in a bill he sponsored.

I don't think that will do much to help the credibility of those arguing the Kerry's credibility (if you get what I mean.)

[Redcloak]

...or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.

As far as interpreting this phrase in a courtroom goes how far would you have to stretch that to include any stock at all?

From where I'm sitting in California, about 2.5 miles; the distance to the nearest Federal courthouse with old Carter and Clinton appointees on the bench.

[ctdonath2]

Sorry to pop your bubble: it's not a stretch. Legal definitions have precise meanings, and #307 above notes Kerry's new legal definition which includes (without stretching) what he's holding. Even the manufacturer plainly refers to that as a "grip" in a manner fully matching Kerry's proposal. Among those who pay close attention to the wording of such bills, there is no question and no stretch that Kerry is in fact accepting and holding and now owning exactly what is plainly banned by his own proposed law.

There is no question of credibility on this observation. If you disagree, study and research the issue until you agree - Drudge's accusation is that solid.

[coloradan]

Pistol:

Straight stock:

Pistol-grip stock:

Claifornia, IIRC, defined "pistol-grip stocks" as one in which the part the hand gripped "protruded conspicuously" below the level of the trigger. Draw a horizontal line backwards from the trigger grips on each of the three guns, then imagine you're a liberal and want to ban as much as you can. Could you declare that the Remington shotgun (#3) has a "pistol grip" under that definition and should be banned? I could.

[drpix]

The gun is identified as a "BERETTA Model A 300 Semiautomatic Shotgun." Unfortunately, what we consider a pistol grip is not the question. Beretta calls it a semi with a "full pistol grip". See below from Beretta:

SPECIFICATIONS:
barrel Lengths:	670 mm	26”
	710 mm	28"
	760 mm	30"
chokes:	from improved cylinder to full
chamber length:	70 mm	2 3/4"
stock Length:	360 mm	14 11/64" ~
(with full pistol grip)
drop at heel:	from 55 to 62 mm	from 2 11/64" to 2 7/16"
approximate weight	3,150 gr	7 Ib 15 oz approx.

Here's Beretta's Page on It

If Kerry's bill had passed, which one of us would want the question to be in the hands of anti-gun prosecutors with this manufacturer's description in their leftist hands?

[Robert357]

I'll stand corrected. Thank you.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

I remember this bill. Drudge is right. It defined a pistol grip as any grip that protruded downward for your rear hand to grab onto. (that is not the correct wording but it is what the bill would have done) And it would have outlawed just about every shoulderable weapon.

This is an accurate and fair hit on Kerry.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

please see my post. #356 or so. The bill was written in a language that defined that grip on the shotgun stock as a pistol grip.

[Vinnie]

Drudge calls the stock a pistol grip. I am afraid he is misinformed on that matter....

That is in fact called a pistol grip stock. As a for instance check out this ad., check specs under STOCK'.
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/1894_centerfireRifles/1894PG.htm

As I understand the law is so vague that that shotgun could very well be banned.

[AmericanMade1776]

KERRY COSPONSORED BILL BANNING GUN HE WAVES!

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaaaaaaaaahahaaaa....caught with the goods he banned from you and me...bwaaaaaaaaaahahahaaaa!

[AmericanMade1776]

That does it.....BERETTA'S CAN NOT BE BOUGHT AND TRANSFERRED BACK TO MASSACHUSETTS.....none of them, any make or model....I KNOW THIS..because....When looking at Guns at the Kittery Outpost, in Kittery Maine...and looking at the Baretta's , all makes of them...the clerk behind the counter, said he could not sell them to Massachusetts residents..it was against the law. I had a Gun Permit in the state of Massachusetts, and was just looking. All you have to do, is call the Kittery Outpost Store, gun department and ask them, here is the url:

http://ktpguns.com/index.html

Hunters, collectors and firearm aficionados interested in purchasing, selling or trading used firearms are invited to visit this site and use the interactive search criteria to find a used gun of their choice from our inventory of over 2,000 used firearms. For more information - On-line ordering is not available at the present time. For inquiries by phone, call toll free 888-KTP-MAINE (587-6246) or FAX (207) 439-8001. By mail: Attn: Shooting Sports, Kittery Trading Post, 301 U.S. Route One, PO Box 904, Kittery, ME 03904 Visit the Kittery Trading Post email info@kitterytradingpost.com