[Southack]

That's not even close to being true about the treaty being valid for illegal aliens. It only applies to *legal* workers. Here's the first hit on Google that I got on the treaty:

http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/pr/USandMexico-pr.htm

SOCIAL SECURITY

News Release

United States and Mexico Sign Social Security Agreement

Agreement to Benefit U.S. Workers and Employers

(Printer friendly version)

Jo Anne Barnhart, Commissioner of Social Security, signed an agreement today with Dr. Santiago Levy Algazi, Director General, Mexican Social Security Institute, that will remove from U.S. citizens working for U.S. companies in Mexico the burden of paying social security taxes to both countries. The agreement also will remove the double taxation requirement for Mexican citizens working for Mexican companies in the United States. “This agreement eliminates a serious and unnecessary impediment to American and Mexican businesses and their employees,” Commissioner Barnhart stated. “Just as important, it promotes equity and fairness for workers who divide their careers between our two countries.”

Currently, U.S. companies that employ U.S. citizens in Mexico are required to contribute to both the U.S. and Mexican social security systems. When the agreement takes effect, U.S. and Mexican employers and their employees will contribute to either the U.S. or Mexican social security systems, but not both. This will result in approximately 3,000 U.S. workers and their employers sharing in tax savings of $140 million over the first five years of the agreement.

The agreement also will improve social security protection for people who work in both countries. At present, some workers who have divided their careers between the United States and Mexico fail to qualify for social security benefits from one or both countries because they do not meet minimum eligibility requirements. Under the agreement it will be possible for workers and their family members to qualify for pro-rated U.S. or Mexican benefits based on combined credits from both countries. This will result in approximately 50,000 U.S. and Mexican workers receiving benefits after the first five years of the agreement.

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

That's not even close to being true about the treaty being valid for illegal aliens. It only applies to *legal* workers.

They'll only be illegal until Jorge Arbusto grants them amnesty, then voila! they're legal and eligble for SSI.

I guess it all depends on what the meaning of the word, "legal" is, doesn't it?

[FITZ]

One of Bush's campaign promises in the first election was that he was going to privatize Social Security. How is merging our program with a foreign country's own bankrupt plan going to privatize it? Was that just some sort of joke? Mexicans are shutting down their capitol over their own failed plan. They have plans to do that tomorrow --- have a big protest and shut down some streets and highways.

[TERMINATTOR]

Help stop plan to give Social Security to illegal aliens

What will the agreement cost? No one really knows. A GAO report from September of 2003 says that the SSA is wildly underestimating the costs of the Mexico agreement because its estimate does not factor in the more than 5 million Mexicans already living here illegally, and it assumes there will be no increase in illegal immigration after the agreement takes affect (though you can be sure that President Fox will be touting the deal from the mountaintops!) Joel Mowbray, a freelance writer who broke the story of the agreement last year in National Review, uses an estimate that the GAO says may be too high. Unfortunately, no one, including the GAO, has come up with a reliable estimate.

SSA's cost estimate: $78 million in 1st year, rising to $138 million in 5th year, and to $650 million in 2050.

Mobray's cost estimate: $345 BILLION over the next 20 years.

Here's an example Mowbray provided at the hearing to illustrate how the costs could add up:

"If a 24-year-old Mexican national who has worked illegally in the U.S. for 3 years is able to present documents from a doctor or a friendly doctor, as the case may be, and needed a W-2 or pay stubs indicating $12,000 in annual earnings, this individual would be eligible for the following: Nearly $8,000 per year in disability income adjusted for inflation until age 65 at which point he would receive the same amount as retirement pay. If he does manage to get a job under the table in the U.S. Or Mexico, he would be able to double dip for a second income stream, and if he is survived by his wife or dependents, his family would be able to receive up to $12,000 annually. If he dies at age 60 and his widow lives to age 85, U.S. Taxpayers would be on the hook for a total of a half million dollars. That is for one worker brought into the Social Security system under the totalization agreement after working in view in the United States illegally for 3 years."

Perhaps most telling though, is that the other 20 totalization agreements we have (the list of countries is on page 5 of the GAO report) produce a combined net gain to the U.S. of $600 million each year, according to SSA. There is a clear consensus that the Mexico agreement would result in an annual net loss to the U.S. The only question is how much of a loss. At a hearing on the issue before the House immigration subcommittee last fall, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee stated that there were 3,000 U.S. citizens working in Mexico who would benefit under the agreement. The Census Bureau says that there were almost 8 million Mexican citizens (non-US citizens) living in the United States in 2002 and most of them were employed here. Obviously, the United States would get the raw end of the deal.

[ravingnutter]

Maybe you should contact the moderators and have them pull the thread, based on your information that this is a false claim.

[StoneColdGOP]

It only applies to *legal* workers.

You might have missed the memo, but that nasty, ugly word "illegal" doesn't mean crap anymore. Ask Bush, Rove & Co.

[hedgetrimmer]

Mexico benefits accord rapped


By Stephen Dinan
THE WASHINGTON TIMES



The General Accounting Office said yesterday the administration has not done the research to justify signing a "totalization agreement" with Mexico, which would allow Mexican nationals including some one-time illegal immigrants to collect Social Security benefits earned during their time in the United States.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20030912-120117-3496r.htm

[jaime1959]

> That's not even close to being true about the treaty being valid for illegal aliens. It only applies to *legal* workers. <

So that makes it ok?

[texastoo]

I suggest you read the fact Sheet on the Mexico Totalization Agreement as it is in the House Way and Means committee. Your post #3 is somewhat disingenuous. Jo Ann Barhart is the person that signed this bill with Mexico. Since she fooled you Hack, may we just assume she is covering her a$$.

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/ss/mexicofacts.pdf

If you will read the "Proposed totalization Agreement with Mexico:

According to the GAO, the proposed agreement will likely increase the number of "unauthorized" Mexican workers and their family members eligible for Social Security benefits.

Mexican workers who previously lacked the required 40 quarters of coverage could quallify with as few as 6 quarters of coverage.(benefits would be prorated to reflect only credits earned in the US)

Maybe this will get your attention Hack.

More family members of Mexican workers would become "entitled" because the agreement "waives" rules that prevent payments to non-citizen dependents living outside the U.S. In other words, too bad for Canada, Chile and all the other countries we have totalization agreements with. These countries don't get the special treatment as Mexico.

Next is the totalization agreement and benefits for "UNAuthorized Immigrants".(ILLEGAL ALIENS)

So in other words all the illegal alien has to do is get a shopping card, work 18 months illegally, go back home and the US government will mail them a check at whatever age V. Fox declares is their retirement age.

As Fitz mentioned earlier, Mexico's social security is almost insolvent now. Their doctors and nurses will strike , I think Thursday, so we on the border can expect our hospitals to be even more crowded.

All of you read the very last paragraph of this fact sheet.