Posted on 08/28/2004 7:20:10 PM PDT by plushaye
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush on Saturday described John Kerry's tour of duty in Vietnam as more heroic than his own service in the Air National Guard, saying his Democratic rival had been "in harm's way."
But the president told NBC's "Today" show that both sides should drop the debate over their wartime service, saying, "I think that we ought to move beyond the past. ... The real question is who best to lead us forward."
Asked if he believed that he and Kerry "served on the same level of heroism," Bush replied, "No, I don't. I think him going to Vietnam was more heroic than my flying fighter jets. He was in harm's way and I wasn't."
Excerpts of the interview, conducted on Saturday for broadcast on Monday, were released by NBC.
The president continued to defend his own service in the Air National Guard, saying, "On the other hand, I served my country. Had my unit been called up, I would have gone."
Kerry's war record in Vietnam has dominated the 2004 presidential campaign in recent weeks, after advertisements by a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth accused him of lying about the events that led to his decoration for bravery.
The White House on Thursday said it would file a lawsuit to try to force the Federal Election Commission to crack down on the ads. Bush says he does not believe Kerry lied about his record, but he has refused to condemn the ads directly.
Kerry accuses the Bush campaign of colluding with the Swift Boat Veterans on the ads, a charge the White House has denied. But its case was hurt this past week when a top lawyer for the Bush campaign, Benjamin Ginsberg, resigned after disclosing he was providing legal advice to the veteran's group.
After Ginsburg's resignation, 50 percent of Americans said they believed the Bush campaign was behind the Swift Boat Veterans ads, according to a survey by the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg Public Policy Center.
Pollster Adam Clymer said Ginsburg's resignation heightened the belief that the Bush campaign had supported the ads, but the controversy could fade from public view when the Republican National Convention begins next week.
Federal election rules bar organizations that take unrestricted donations from coordinating their activities with campaigns or political parties.
The issue has also caused tension with Republican Sen. John McCain, another Vietnam veteran and influential lawmaker who has urged Bush to condemn the ads and get them halted.
McCain is backing Bush for the White House, but the Arizona senator has defended his friend Kerry and threatened to raise the issue with Bush when they campaign in Iowa next week.
I know! Isn't it great?!
He actually wants to debate Bush on "military service".
He needs to drag Bush (and he also tried to drag McCain) into his fight. That way, Kerry can debate Bush on "Military heroism", rather than issues.
Bush isn't playing! On the contrary, Bush is killing him with his own words! He pulls the rung right out from under Kerry by "agreeing" with him. That way, there can be no debate on Kerry's "presidential qualification". Bush just put the fire out.
Kerry's Vietnam history is like Clinton's impeachment. He'll never be able to rid himself of it.
I met Karen Hughes at her book signing in NYC. She's so bright...like a laser.
The Democrats continue to underestimate President Bush in the same fashion as these comments of yours. I'm surprised you don't discern how this helps President Bush. Keep the faith and vote Bush/Cheney. He is going to bury Kerry with kindness.
Bump --- to the essence of the matter for this election.
But the matter is not limited to this election.
Has anybody polled the American people to see if they think the Kerry campaign is linked to Michael Moore, Moveon.org and George Soros? Why not?
The real heros are under the tombstones.
Excuse me, but this compliment not only went to Kerry, but represented EVERY veteran who served in Nam........"He was in harm's way and I wasn't."........so were the Swift Boat Vets !!!!
Yeah, but he waited over a week to ask him to take the ad down. I don't trust McCain.
The fact that Kerry was standing there as Clark spewed his filth made the event even more reprehensible. Let's see if one Pubbie has a spine tomorrow and call this bashing of the President a scurrilous and slanderous smear on the President. I, for one, won't be holding my breath, and am beginning to wonder just how gutless they are when it comes to vigorously defending the President.
He gave the Vets the green light on that one.
Don't play poker with Dubya!
Bush entered the Texas ANG in the summer on 1968. At that time The Texas ANG was flying F-102A Delta Daggers in Vietnam.
Excerrts from "F-102, Vietnam & George W. Bush"
George W. Bush's military service began in 1968 when he enlisted in the Texas Air National Guard after graduating with a bachelor's degree in history from Yale University. The aircraft that he was ultimately trained to fly was the F-102 Delta Dagger. A number of sources have claimed that Bush sought service in the National Guard to avoid being sent to Vietnam, and that the F-102 was a safe choice because it was an obsolete aircraft that would never see any real combat. However, those perceptions turn out to be incorrect, as will be seen shortly.
The F-102 made its first flight in 1953 and entered service with the Air Defense Command (ADC) in 1956. About 1,000 Delta Daggers were built, and although eventually superseded by the related F-106 Delta Dart, the F-102 remained one of the most important aircraft in the ADC through the mid-1960s. At its peak, the aircraft made up over half of the interceptors operated by the ADC and equipped 32 squadrons across the continental US. Additional squadrons were based in western Europe, the Pacific, and Alaska.
As the 1960s continued, many of these aircraft were transferred from the US Air Force to Air National Guard (ANG) units. By 1966, nearly 350 F-102s were being operated by ANG squadrons.
One of the primary ANG units to receive the F-102 was the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron (FIS) at Ellington Air National Guard Station, which operated the aircraft from 1965 through 1974. These planes were given responsibility for patrolling the Gulf Coast and intercepting Soviet Tu-95 bombers that regularly flew off the US shore while carrying a payload of nuclear weapons. The 111th was and still is part of the 147th Fighter Wing in Houston, Texas. It was here that George W. Bush was stationed following his enlistment in May 1968.
It is a common misconception that the Air National Guard was a safe place for military duty during the Vietnam War. In actuality, pilots from the 147th Fighter Interceptor Group, as it was called at the time, were actually conducting combat missions in Vietnam at the very time Bush enlisted. In fact, F-102 squadrons had been stationed in South Vietnam since March 1962.
F-102 squadrons continued to be stationed in South Vietnam and Thailand throughout most of the Vietnam War. The planes were typically used for fighter defense patrols and as escorts for B-52 bomber raids. While the F-102 had few opportunities to engage in its primary role of fighter combat, the aircraft was used in the close air support role starting in 1965. Armed with rocket pods, Delta Daggers would make attacks on Viet Cong encampments in an attempt to harass enemy soldiers. Some missions were conducted using the aircraft's heat-seeking air-to-air missiles to lock onto enemy campfires at night. Though these missions were never considered to be serious attacks on enemy activity, F-102 pilots did often report secondary explosions coming from their targets.
These missions were also dangerous, given the risks inherent to low-level attacks against armed ground troops. A total of 14 or 15 F-102 fighters were lost in Vietnam. Three were shot down by anti-aircraft or small arms fire, one is believed to have been lost in air-to-air combat with a MiG-21, four were destroyed on the ground during Viet Cong attacks, and the remainder succumbed to training accidents.
Even in peacetime conditions, F-102 pilots risked their lives on every flight. Only highly-qualified pilot candidates were accepted for Delta Dagger training because it was such a challenging aircraft to fly and left little room for mistakes. According to the Air Force Safety Center , the lifetime Class A accident rate for the F-102 was 13.69 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours, much higher than the average for today's combat aircraft. For example, the F-16 has an accident rate of 4.14, the S-3 is at 2.6, the F-15 at 2.47, the F-18 at 4.9, and the F-117 at 4.07. Even the AV-8B, regarded as the most dangerous aircraft in service today, has an accident rate of only 11.05 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours. The F-102 claimed the lives of many pilots, including a number stationed at Ellington during Bush's tenure. Of the 875 F-102A production models that entered service, 259 were lost in accidents that killed 70 Air Force and ANG pilots.
Nevertheless, we have established that the F-102 was serving in combat in Vietnam at the time Bush enlisted to become an F-102 pilot. In fact, pilots from the 147th FIG of the Texas ANG were routinely rotated to Vietnam for combat duty under a program called "Palace Alert" from 1968 to 1970. Palace Alert was an Air Force program that sent qualified F-102 pilots from the ANG to bases in Europe or southeast Asia for periods of three to six months for frontline duty. ________________ --taken from the Lincoln Heritage Institute:
http://www.lincolnheritage.org/About_Us/Resources/Weekly_Magazine/New_Articles/F-102__Vietnam___George_W__Bus/f-102__vietnam___george_w__bus.html
"Yeah, but he waited over a week to ask him to take the ad down. I don't trust McCain."
Me neither. The Senator does serve his purposes but I wonder about his secret long-term agenda. I was very surprised on how really chummy President Bush and McCain were looking on the campaign trail though. I thought they never got along since the 2000 primary campaign.
"And how long was Rassman onboard '94 ?"
Jacque Costeau Rassmann ( he claims he repeatedly dived to the bottom of the canal 5 times )was on board Kerry's boat-one time.
That time.
He was hanging out with the swiftees, taking some R&R .
Rassmann and RiceIntheAssman had met just one month prior, in a bar.
They fooled around, blowing up rice caches and that fateful chocolate chip eating night was their first " mission ."
Now that we know that Kerry filmed his men torching a village, I wonder if Rassmann is also in the video.
I wonder also if Rassman was around, when Kerry was filmed sunbathing in cut off shorts, next to a bound and blind folded Viet Cong prisoner.
Someone here said it (sorry that I can't remember who), but, I didn't coin it.
Truth to liberals is like kryptonite to Superman.
Was that rhetorical? About 48 hours.
Total misread of the man. You
never knew him; probably never
will. Too bad. He's made no
secret of what he's like.
"Has anybody polled the American people to see if they think the Kerry campaign is linked to Michael Moore, Moveon.org and George Soros? Why not?"
Most of the American people...
"Who the heck are Michael Moore, Moveon.org and George Soros ?"
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