Posted on 08/27/2004 1:12:08 PM PDT by christie
Thank you!!. I'm going to pull my thread. Seems you've already have a thorough project going.
Your thread is great. I'm weak on the military timeline, which is a little confusing with all the different versions.
January 22 http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/service_timeline.html
January 22, 1969 Kerry and other Swift boat commanders travel to Saigon for meeting with Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, Commander Naval Forces Vietnam (COMNAVFORV), and Gen. Creighton Abrams, Commander United States Military Assistance Command Vietnam (COMUSMACV)
January 30: Kerry took over PCF 94
February 28, 1969: Kerry received a replacement, Fred Short, as a replacement for Alston.
February 28, 1969: "In addition to Kerry's Silver Star PCF-94's performance on February 28 also earned Bronze Stars for Tommy Belodeau and Mike Medeiros and Navy Commendation Medals with Combat V Devices for Del Sandusky, Fred Short, and Gene Thorson." - Douglas Brinkley
The Kerry campaign featured the photograph in an advertisement released in May titled Lifetime.
I guess it just seems a little strange to me that he would use this particular photograph for PR purposes after the way he described why the meeting in 1971 with the Generals was called.
I don't know why I think I should be able to keep Kerry's stories straight, when he can't. LOL
Are there any other accounts of the nature of this meeting and why it was called?
That's very thorough and very impressive. I just spent the last hour consuming the vast amount of information you just presented, including the article from the Harvard Crimson. Well done.
Can you please explain to me why "supporting aircraft carriers in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam. "
Is not considered serving in Vietnam...?
I'm not trying to be a disruptor, - just trying to understand...
ping
Thorson didn't take sides, and he still doesn't. He remains quiet and politely refuses to answer if he agreed or disagreed with Kerry's antiwar actions after Vietnam.
He said people didn't draw distinctions between supporting the troops and supporting the war 30 years ago. They were either one or the other, and Thorson doesn't renounce his involvement in Vietnam.
"I was a hawk back then, and I still am," Thorson said. "People will disagree with Vietnam, and I'll listen to what they say. However, I'll defend what we did there."
While Thorson remained neutral about Kerry's postwar activities, he would join him in similar antiwar activities three decades later.
But during those three decades, the two maintained nearly no contact. Thorson continued as a cement mason while Kerry built a political career, beginning as a lawyer, a lieutenant governor, then a U.S. senator for Massachusetts.
Their dissimilar lives were brought back together in 1996 by the same thing that brought them together in 1968: political turmoil.
At the time, Kerry was running his re-election campaign in the Senate against favored Massachusetts Gov. William Weld. Weld challenged Kerry's service record in Vietnam.
As a political trump card, Kerry called in Thorson and his other Vietnam comrades to campaign for him. The plan worked; Kerry was re-elected to a third term.
Having his former crew members proved so successful, Kerry decided to call them again when he explored a presidential run in 2002.
As Kerry stumped in Iowa last fall, he was joined by Thorson -- who defended Kerry with political rhetoric instead of a 50-caliber machine gun. Part of Thorson's job was talking to veterans about Iraq, telling them President Bush was leading America down a dead-end road with a war that started the same way as Vietnam.
= = = = =
Thorson didn't take sides, and he still doesn't. (WHAT A LIE!) Just Google on his name.
Their dissimilar lives were brought back together in 1996 by the same thing that brought them together in 1968: political turmoil.
At the time, Kerry was running his re-election campaign in the Senate against favored Massachusetts Gov. William Weld. Weld challenged Kerry's service record in Vietnam.
As a political trump card, Kerry called in Thorson and his other Vietnam comrades to campaign for him. The plan worked; Kerry was re-elected to a third term.
Having his former crew members proved so successful, Kerry decided to call them again when he explored a presidential run in 2002.
= = = = =
Detecting a pattern here....
Ed Gold, ”Kerry’s big sister lending a hand in her own way” (on Peggy)
”Kerry’s Elder Sister is New York Delegate" (on Peggy)
James Burnett, "The Silent Partner" (on Cameron)
Kerry campaign swings by Canada (on Diana)
But, when you add up his total time in Vietnam and Gulf of Tonkin Duty, he had about 8 to 9 months.
The standard tour in Vietnam for the average guy was 12 or 13 months. Kerry's '2 tours' doesn't measure up to one real Vietnam tour.
CCI's investigation spawned the VVAW's Winter Soldier investigation, which Kerry participated in.
Great. Thanks.
While in Vietnam Kerry's rank was only that of a Lieutenant Junior Grade officer. I would guess that he never was promoted to a full Lieutenant rank while on active duty. For his first 18 months in the US Navy he mostly likely had a rank of Ensign.
A very minor point....if Kerry was in the play "and in a 1962 production of Caine Mutiny"...it was probably "The Caine Mutiny Court-Martial."
What part did he play?
Christie: Check the Kerry Service Record from his web site. It shows that he was still "active" in the Naval Reserve between 3 Jan 1970 to Jul 1972. That he was under the Uniform Code for Military Justice.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Service_Record.pdf
904. ART. 104. AIDING THE ENEMY
Any person who--
(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or
(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or [protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;
shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj2.htm#866.%20ART.%2086.%20ABSENCE%20WITHOUT%20LEAVE
Another christie/TwoStep project. Thank G*D for free phone calls.
awesome work!! i hope you are proud
I believe (of course I read it here somewhere on FR) that of the entire time he was assigned to the Gridley (June 67 - June 68), it was in VN waters only part of the time. It would be good to see that broken down.
Phasma, I agree with you that service abord the Gridley while serving in the Gulf of Tonkin is and should be considered 'serving in Vietnam'
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