[Cincinatus' Wife]

"Which side are you on?"

That challenge was shouted at anti-war demonstrations.

In Chicago they shouted, "The whole world is watching!"

Well the whole world is watching again and this time it's Iraq.

We can't win the debate on Iraq until we recognize Vietnam for what it was.

The Swift Boat fracas is the surface manifestation of a large, open, deep divide in American political thought.

***John F. Kerry represents the side that bows to totalitarianism and believes we should comply with international direction.

***George W. Bush represents the side that believes in a strong America and freedom.

(REUTERS/Bri)

***LIBERALS believe there is no right and wrong, except to the extent that America is always wrong - no good and evil
("There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys, there's only you and me and we just disagree…")

Vietnam was wrong, a crime ("America's Great Sin") - American hubris and "imperialism!"

Cold War was American paranoia

Commies were "struggles of national liberation from colonialism" or "building socialist paradises on earth (Soviets)"

USSR collapsed because of "internal contradictions"

LIBERALS won the war with their "superior intellects."

___________________________________________________THE DIVIDE_______________________________________________

(REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque)

***CONSERVATIVES: believe there IS right and wrong (moral absolutism)

We're right and they (Commies) are wrong.

Communism was an 'Evil Empire' (Reagan)

Vietnam was the right fight.

We cut-and-ran in Vietnam and millions suffered (the conservatives version of "America's Great Sin")

Cold War was right fight -- truth and justice v. lies and oppression.

The Wall came down - (Reagan again), no thanks to the John Kerrys of the world. They STILL don't recognize this! (and never will)

##################################################################################################################

The Vietnam scab is one that NEEDS to be picked - it's the same argument now as it was 30 years ago .

Who's in the right on Iraq?

Which side is the good side? (us again)

Should we do what's necessary to win and triumph? (of course).

The swift boat controversy has brought to the surface a long-suppressed debate about
who we are and what we stand for in the world and in history (space and time).

Which side are you on?

[Cincinatus' Wife]

[Democrat National Convention was this:]*** …"if you can successfully camouflage your own pathology and hatred with a concern for the 'poor' and the 'downtrodden,' then there will always be a 'progressive' milieu to support and defend you." Source

[Kerry represents embodies this:]… That is both the ethical core and psychological heart of what it means to be a part of the left. That is where the gratification comes from. To see yourself as a social redeemer. To feel anointed. In other words: To be progressive is itself the most satisfying narcissism.

If you were active in the so-called "peace" movement or in the radical wing of the civil rights causes, why would you tell the truth? Why would you tell people that no, you weren't really a "peace activist," except in the sense that you were against America's war. Why would you draw attention to the fact that while you called yourselves "peace activists," you didn't oppose the Communists' war, and were gratified when America's enemies won. What you were really against was not war at all, but American "imperialism" and American capitalism. What you truly hated was America's democracy, which you knew to be a "sham" because it was controlled by money in the end. That's why you wanted to "Bring the Troops Home," as your slogan said. Because if America's troops came home, America would lose and the Communists would win. And the progressive future would be one step closer.

The Dissident Voice October 2003 - One, Two, Three, What Are They Fighting For?***.....No wonder morale is low. No wonder the American soldiers I meet on the streets of Baghdad and other Iraqi cities don't mince their words about their own government. US troops have been given orders not to bad-mouth their President or Secretary of Defence in front of Iraqis or reporters (who have about the same status in the eyes of the occupation authorities). But when I suggested to a group of US military police near Abu Ghurayb they would be voting Republican at the next election, they fell about laughing. "We shouldn't be here and we should never have been sent here," one of them told me with astonishing candour. "And maybe you can tell me: why were we sent here?".....***

[Cincinatus]

Well said, sweetie! :^)

[netmilsmom]

Good Job Lady! I wish I could slap some of my family upside the head with this.

[ClearCase_guy]

Which Side Are On by Florence Reece
Often sung by Pete Seeger

Come all you good workers,
Good news to you I'll tell
Of how the good old union
Has come in here to dwell.

CHORUS:
Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

My dady was a miner,
And I'm a miner's son,
And I'll stick with the union
'Til every battle's won.
They say in Harlan County
There are no neutrals there.
You'll either be a union man
Or a thug for J. H. Blair.

Oh workers can you stand it?
Oh tell me how you can?
Will you be a lousy scab
Or will you be a man?

Don't scab for the bosses,
Don't listen to their lies.
Us poor folks haven't got a chance
Unless we organize.

[liberty_lvr]

Speaking of sides...

I see Fox has now planted itself squarely in the Poodle's camp. I just had the treat of excessive morning nausea after listening to that hack, former UN ambassador Richard Holbrooke, roundly and thoroughly trash the Swifties and, just for good measure, the Bush Administration for their "gross miscalculation" in Iraq. The Fox 'toons all sat there, nodding quite sagely.

Absolutely DISGUSTING. What a bunch of despicable, sanctimonious jerks.

[Stars N Stripes]

"The Vietnam scab is one that NEEDS to be picked - it's the same argument now as it was 30 years ago .

Ya know, for 34 years I've pretty much let my service in Vietnam just sit. Every once and a while the subject would come up and I'd feel a little twinge of pride, then let it go. Lately, I have begun to really feel good about it. It's as though after all that time we're finally getting our welcome home parade. I hope I'm not sounding too corny or egotistic, it's just kinda weird after all these years. And maybe a little ironic as well.

[Rome2000]

[Big Guy and Rusty 99]

Republicans are the party of prevention. Democrats are the party of trying to fix things after the fact. Which one is better: Stopping yourself from accidently cutting off your arm before it happens or having to go to hospital so that you can have it sown back on?

---

By the way, this is one of my favorite Dylan songs. My all time favorite has to be 'Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands"


My other favorite part from this one, besides the one you posted, has to be:

Yes, I received your letter yesterday
(About the time the door knob broke)
When you asked how I was doing
Was that some kind of joke?
All these people that you mention
Yes, I know them, they're quite lame
I had to rearrange their faces
And give them all another name
Right now I can't read too good
Don't send me no more letters no
Not unless you mail them
From Desolation Row

[theFIRMbss]

>"Which side are you on?"

[Valin]

DESOLATION ROW
(Words and Music by Bob Dylan)
1965 Warner Bros. Inc
Renewed 1993 Special Rider Music

They're selling postcards of the hanging
They're painting the passports brown
The beauty parlor is filled with sailors
The circus is in town
Here comes the blind commissioner
They've got him in a trance
One hand is tied to the tight-rope walker
The other is in his pants
And the riot squad they're restless
They need somewhere to go
As Lady and I look out tonight
From Desolation Row

Cinderella, she seems so easy
"It takes one to know one," she smiles
And puts her hands in her back pockets
Bette Davis style
And in comes Romeo, he's moaning
"You Belong to Me I Believe"
And someone says," You're in the wrong place, my friend
You better leave"
And the only sound that's left
After the ambulances go
Is Cinderella sweeping up
On Desolation Row

Now the moon is almost hidden
The stars are beginning to hide
The fortunetelling lady
Has even taken all her things inside
All except for Cain and Abel
And the hunchback of Notre Dame
Everybody is making love
Or else expecting rain
And the Good Samaritan, he's dressing
He's getting ready for the show
He's going to the carnival tonight
On Desolation Row

Now Ophelia, she's 'neath the window
For her I feel so afraid
On her twenty-second birthday
She already is an old maid

To her, death is quite romantic
She wears an iron vest
Her profession's her religion
Her sin is her lifelessness
And though her eyes are fixed upon
Noah's great rainbow
She spends her time peeking
Into Desolation Row

Einstein, disguised as Robin Hood
With his memories in a trunk
Passed this way an hour ago
With his friend, a jealous monk
He looked so immaculately frightful
As he bummed a cigarette
Then he went off sniffing drainpipes
And reciting the alphabet
Now you would not think to look at him
But he was famous long ago
For playing the electric violin
On Desolation Row

Dr. Filth, he keeps his world
Inside of a leather cup
But all his sexless patients
They're trying to blow it up
Now his nurse, some local loser
She's in charge of the cyanide hole
And she also keeps the cards that read
"Have Mercy on His Soul"
They all play on penny whistles
You can hear them blow
If you lean your head out far enough
From Desolation Row

Across the street they've nailed the curtains
They're getting ready for the feast
The Phantom of the Opera
A perfect image of a priest
They're spoonfeeding Casanova
To get him to feel more assured
Then they'll kill him with self-confidence
After poisoning him with words

And the Phantom's shouting to skinny girls
"Get Outa Here If You Don't Know
Casanova is just being punished for going
To Desolation Row"

Now at midnight all the agents
And the superhuman crew
Come out and round up everyone
That knows more than they do
Then they bring them to the factory
Where the heart-attack machine
Is strapped across their shoulders
And then the kerosene
Is brought down from the castles
By insurance men who go
Check to see that nobody is escaping
To Desolation Row

Praise be to Nero's Neptune
The Titanic sails at dawn
And everybody's shouting
"Which Side Are You On?"
And Ezra Pound and T. S. Eliot
Fighting in the captain's tower
While calypso singers laugh at them
And fishermen hold flowers
Between the windows of the sea
Where lovely mermaids flow
And nobody has to think too much
About Desolation Row

Yes, I received your letter yesterday
(About the time the door knob broke)
When you asked how I was doing
Was that some kind of joke?
All these people that you mention
Yes, I know them, they're quite lame
I had to rearrange their faces
And give them all another name
Right now I can't read too good
Don't send me no more letters no
Not unless you mail them
From Desolation Row

[BigSkyFreeper]

BUMP!

[Eagle9]

Excellent !
Great demonstration of the contrast between Liberal and Conservative ideology. This'll make a good email.
________________________________________________

(Now I've got the lyrics to 'Desolation Row' stuck on Replay in my head ...)

BTW, when Dylan 'went electric' at the Newport Folk Festival in March, 1965, the band backing him was The Paul Butterfield Blues Band. A few months later the album 'Highway 61 Revisited" was released, with Michael Bloomfield playing (not credited on the LP) most of the guitar and Al Kooper on organ.

[Just mythoughts]

Thanks. I had not seen this.

Guess you can tell I do not want Vietnam forgotten. Forgetting it allows these lying crooked liberals to repeat it again.