Posted on 08/26/2004 4:36:06 PM PDT by Shermy
PORTLAND, Ore. - A swiftboat crewman decorated in the 1969 Vietnam incident where John Kerry (news - web sites) won a Bronze Star says not only did they come under enemy fire but also that his own boat commander, who has challenged the official account, was too distracted to notice the gunfire.
Retired Chief Petty Officer Robert E. Lambert, of Central Point, Ore., got a Bronze Star for pulling his boat commander Lt. Larry Thurlow out of the Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969. Thurlow had jumped onto another swiftboat to aid sailors wounded by a mine explosion but fell off when the out-of-control boat ran aground.
Thurlow, who has been prominent among a group of veterans challenging the Democratic presidential candidate's record, has said there was no enemy fire during the incident. Lambert, however, supports the Navy account that says all five swiftboats in the task force "came under small arms and automatic weapon fire from the river banks" when the mine detonated.
"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.
"Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was under fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."
The anti-Kerry group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, has been running television ads challenging the Navy account of the boats being under fire. Kerry has condemned the ads as a Republican smear campaign.
A career military man, Lambert is no fan of Kerry's either. He doesn't like Kerry's post-Vietnam anti-war activity and doesn't plan to vote for him.
"I don't like the man himself," Lambert said, "but I think what happened happened, and he was there."
A March 1969 Navy report located by The Associated Press this week supports Lambert's version. The report twice mentions the incident and both times calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry's.
Kerry's Bronze Star was awarded for his pulling Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann, who had been blown off the boat, out of the river. Rassmann, who is retired and lives in Florence, Ore., has said repeatedly that the boats were under fire, as have other witnesses. Lambert didn't see that rescue because Kerry was farther down the river and "I was busy pulling my own boat officer (Thurlow) out of the water."
Thurlow could not be reached for comment about Lambert's recollections.
But speaking for the Swift Boat Veterans group, Van Odell, who was in the task force that day, remembers it differently from Lambert.
"When they're firing, you can hear the rounds hit the boat or buzz by your head. There was none of that," he said in a telephone interview from Katy, Texas, where he lives.
Lambert said the swiftboats were on their way out of the river when a mine exploded under one, PCF-3.
"When they blew the 3-boat, everyone opened up on the banks with everything they had," he said. "That was the normal procedure. When they came after you, they came after you. Somebody on shore blew that mine."
"There was always a firefight" after a mine detonation, he said.
"Kerry was out in front of us, on down the river. He had to come back up the river to get to us."
Lambert retired in 1978 as a chief petty officer with 22 years of service and three tours in Vietnam. He does not remember ever meeting Kerry.
I guess you're partly right. What concerns me is the way the media can shape this, and fense sitters willingness not to care about the truth.
Eventhough, Bush can do nothing about it, I think it's ultimately going to hurt rather than help.
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Lambert again.
You're welcome. There certainly is a lot of information, much of it conflicting, to keep track of.
And none of the boats had damage from the enemy fire, not a single bullet hole.
Kerry was controlling the craft in the pilot house. The broken windows were probably from bullets shattering the rocks onshore and flying out into the windows. Kerry had the guns a blazing into the shore.
6 Swift Boats and only 3 bullet holes? Doesn't sound like enemy fire to me. Thurlow was so busy because he was in the water that he didn't notice there was enemy fire, but Rassman in the same water did?
None of us has a reliable crystal ball. The Swiftees beef with Kerry is personal. ANd, they feel a moral obligation to inform the public of their observations and opinions drawn from those observations. It would be unfair to silence them, but a "bigger fire elsewhere" would certainly draw attention away from their message.
What does this have to do with Bush winning reelection? I am not disputing that the SBV should not speak out, I just don't think it should be the FOCUS of this campaign because it puts ALL the spotlight on Kerry.
Of course Kerry brought up VN, it's the only damn thing he can bring up because there is NOTHING else for him! And that puts HIM in control and the subject of EVERYTHING about this campaign. KERRY, KERRY, KERRY...that's all this is about, people hear and see Kerry 100% of the time it will give him a better chance of winning just based on face value.
Everything you are saying is incorrect.
We'll see, but first you need to take a marketing course!
Good point. A prior poster indicated the broken windows occured the previous day.
Yes, his statment is not made with the same "certain" conviction expressed under oath, in recent affidavits, by some of the Swiftees who were also there.
Bear in mind that PO Lambert was Thurlow's 2iC and radarman. As such his duty station is inside the wheelhouse. With Thurlow out trying to save PCF-3, it is positively in the wheelhouse. And all reports say the Lambert had command of the boat during the events.
Inside the wheelhouse would probably be the worst place to detemine if there was enemy fire of not. Engine noise behind, bow gunner in front of you, twin 50 cals overhead.
I understand him being vague.
I am not saying silence them by any measure, what I am saying is the focus is too much on this tit for tat they are creating thus putting Kerry directly in the spotlight!
The associated press had to find the report?
You have shed a lot of light on this. Thanks!
Of course it does....KERRY WROTE THE REPORT!
THE "NAVY" WASN'T THERE!
Lambert's problem is that nobody was shot and there were no bullet holes in the boats. The bullet holes that have been referred to happened the previous day.
No idea what your point is. Take it up with Kerry and the vets if you don't like it. And that puts HIM in control and the subject of EVERYTHING about this campaign. KERRY, KERRY, KERRY...that's all this is about, people hear and see Kerry 100% of the time it will give him a better chance of winning just based on face value
It's just the opposite of what you said. What's best is for us is for the election to be about Kerry and how extreme he is. The conservative side (and vets) must define Kerry to the masses since he is an unknown basically. 20 years in the Senate and few knew who he was a year ago. As long as Kerry was vague and unknown, Kerry could capitalize on Iraq as an "anybody-but-Bush" and was doing well in the polls.
Now Kerry is being being defined, his credibility is shattered on an issue HE brought up and based his campaign on and now he is now on the defensive. Good positioning for Bush before the RNC. Give this a little more thought.
you forget they had to stay and TOW the #3 boat back!
Eventually Kerry's people are going to go to Viet Nam and find some guy who will swear on Mao's little red book that he in fact was the person who was shooting at Kerry that day.
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