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Intelligent Design advocate Stephen Meyer published in peer-reviewed journal
Discovery.org ^ | 8/25/04 | Stephen C. Meyer

Posted on 08/26/2004 7:41:29 AM PDT by Michael_Michaelangelo

The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories

Proceedings of the Bioligical Society of Washington August 25, 2004

Link to PDF only. No text.

(Excerpt) Read more at discovery.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: biology; crevolist; intelligentdesign
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Error: file not found! Please contact the webmaster and report the following error:

Refering link:

Broken File id: 144

I wonder what the odds are that the only ID'er ever to get published in a peer reviewed journal gets a broken link?

I'll sneak around later and see if one of the folks here can find his journal article in the library.

61 posted on 08/26/2004 11:36:50 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Ichneumon
"Never", eh? Feel free to prove this "speculation" of yours. This should be amusing.

What I am talking about is the difference between scientific truth (the latest theory based on the latest research and based on the beliefs of the majority of scientists currently working in that field) and the truth (what actually happened). Science can satisfy the first truth, but never the second truth.

It is useful for us to believe that there is such a thing as a Hydrogen atom, but that does not mean there is one in reality. The periodic table of elements is our current model based on our current knowledge.
62 posted on 08/26/2004 11:37:17 AM PDT by microgood
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To: PatrickHenry
Actually, it's nothing more than the expression of a wretched tautology: "If X is the cause, then X is causally adequate."

Or the obverse: "If you want a causally adequate hypothesis, just postulate a sufficiently big miracle/deity".

Also known as the "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat" approach.

What peer endorsed that?

Good question.

63 posted on 08/26/2004 11:37:21 AM PDT by Ichneumon ("...she might as well have been a space alien." - Bill Clinton, on Hillary, "My Life", p. 182)
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To: Ichneumon; microgood; Buggman
Hint: Most American scientists are Christians.

Just to rudely but in, I've worked with a couple hundred biologists and find this to be true. I already know it's true of physicists.

64 posted on 08/26/2004 11:39:35 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Junior; Alamo-Girl; Michael_Michaelangelo; marron
Arrgggh Junior, but I have mispoken: The reference for Aristotelian formal cause is not to be found in Laws II, for that text cannot be found. :^) I meant to say Physics, Book II. Coincidentally, I happen to have that book with me today, so can give the cite (Physics III, 3):

(2) the form or pattern of a thing, that is, the reason (and the kind of reason) which explains what it was to be that thing....

My astrophysicist friend has given a superb exposition of the four Aristotelian causes in a recent draft manuscript. I'll quote him here, just in case any Lurker might be interested in the bases of Aristotelian logic:

“the material cause is the basic stuff out of which the thing is made. The material cause of a house, for example, would include the wood, metal, glass, and other building materials used in its construction. All of these things belong in an explanation of the house because it could not exist unless they were present in its composition.

"The formal cause {Gk. eidos} is the pattern or essence in conformity with which these materials are assembled. Thus, the formal cause of our exemplary house would be the sort of thing that is represented on a blueprint of its design. This, too, is part of the explanation of the house, since its materials would be only a pile of rubble (or a different house) if they were not put together in this way.

"The efficient cause is the agent or force immediately responsible for bringing this matter and that form together in the production of the thing. Thus, the efficient cause of the house would include the carpenters, masons, plumbers, and other workers who used these materials to build the house in accordance with the blueprint for its construction. Clearly the house would not be what it is without their contribution.

"Lastly, the final cause {Gk. telos} is the end or purpose for which a thing exists, so the final cause of our house would be to provide shelter for human beings. This is part of the explanation of the house's existence because it would never have been built unless someone needed it as a place to live.” -- Attila Grandpierre, ms of the forthcoming Book of the Living Universe, 2004

65 posted on 08/26/2004 11:40:24 AM PDT by betty boop
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

He also has a very good article in The Journal of Interdisciplinary Studies, Vol.XI No. 1/2, 1999, PP1-38.

http://www.jis3.org/

Have a look here.


66 posted on 08/26/2004 11:40:56 AM PDT by noah
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To: Dementon
Uh oh... Eviloootion is in trouble now.

I assume you mean evolution. Why would evolutionary science be in trouble? Is God not allowed to use whatever means He may desire to form Humankind - or the entire universe? Why should He be forced to limit Himself to the wave of a Heavenly Hand?
Today we tend to want instant gratification. Should we bestow Him with the same weakness?
67 posted on 08/26/2004 11:43:28 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Quick1

You cannot scientifically prove that God did something. You can however prove that an unknown force is acting upon something. Religious people will attribute that force to God, atheists will be satisfied with labeling it an unknown force. You can speculate that it is aliens, or pink unicorns. Throughout history we science has repeatedly discovery a widely accepted explanation for unknowns, the atoms, gravity, bacteria, etc. But for scientists to categorically state that intelligent design can never be the answer to an unknown is trying to prove a negative.


68 posted on 08/26/2004 11:45:40 AM PDT by azcap
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To: Ichneumon
For that he needed twenty one pages of article and five pages of footnotes?

Of course. The more rabid verbosity the more the ignorant will be impressed.
69 posted on 08/26/2004 11:48:25 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: betty boop

The whole article is rather poor in concept. Meyer seems to be suffering from the "Fallacy of Retrospective Astonishment." It's analogous to looking at a bridge hand and claiming that the cards were arranged because the probability of getting that hand was 1 in 3,954,242,643,910,000,000,000 roughly.

The author's definition of "form" implies that donuts, coffee cups, headless humans, and nematodes are all of the same form. (A donut really does look like a very short worm.) He doesn't give any specifics other than some confused comments on topology.

Meyer also uses several versions of "complexity" without defining any of them. This allows him to be ambiguous, clandestinely switching between meanings. He talks about an increase in "complex specified information" without defining the term; however he does claim this undefined "something" increases over time. He gives no measure to show that his claim is true. Later he claims that no "materialist" (another undefined term) mechanism can account for his claim of an unmeasured increase in his undefined "something."

He dismisses self-organized complexity without even getting the mechanism correct. (He claims "highly improbable outcomes" in contrast to the actual work done on self-organization.)

Towards the end, he claims that things must have been "designed" without showing what he means by "design" nor by showing a mechanism for such design. A truly pathetic article.


70 posted on 08/26/2004 11:53:02 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Junior

There was no abstract to post.


71 posted on 08/26/2004 11:53:39 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Has anyone found the home page of the Bioligical Society of Washington? I've been looking, but can't find it.


72 posted on 08/26/2004 11:55:16 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (A compassionate evolutionist!)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

I tried several times before the error went away. I got, the "corrupt file" error. Maybe this is a sign of intelligence by the machines doing the transfer.


73 posted on 08/26/2004 11:56:49 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
There was no abstract to post.

;>)

74 posted on 08/26/2004 11:56:58 AM PDT by js1138 (Speedy architect of perfect labyrinths.)
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To: truthfinder9

That link is just an ad for a book.


75 posted on 08/26/2004 11:57:41 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Well then, that explains it.

I thought all peer-reviewed papers required an abstract. At least, that's how my instructors taught us.

76 posted on 08/26/2004 12:00:11 PM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Junior
Some journals do not use abstracts. Acta Arithmetica (the Polish one) does not. However, it's more normal to do so.
77 posted on 08/26/2004 12:08:16 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: betty boop
From a physics point of view, it is often useful to consider the material cause to be a state and the efficient cause to be an event.

This works well in the sense that one might say of a collision (cueball with eightball for example) that the efficient cause was the cuestroke but the material cause was the position and momentum of the two balls (it doesn't matter if the cueball was stroked or bowled or thrown or shot from a tennis ball server, if it has the same momentum and position in each case.) "Causality" then links states with events, but not necessarily events with events.

78 posted on 08/26/2004 12:14:11 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: truthfinder9
This could be the "next big thing" in ID.

Which would also make it the first big thing in ID.

79 posted on 08/26/2004 12:22:32 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: PatrickHenry
Has anyone found the home page of the Bioligical Society of Washington? I've been looking, but can't find it.

Apparantly it's an offshoot of the Philosophical Society of Washington

"The Anthropological Society was organized in 1879, the Biological Society in 1880, and the Chemical Society in 1884."

More info on the society can be found here:

" The Biological Society of Washington was founded on December 3, 1880. Its original purpose was the furtherance of biological scholarship by providing a forum for the presentation of scientific papers. Later modifications limited the purpose to the furtherance of taxonomic study and the diffusion of taxonomic knowledge, mainly through the publication of the Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington. It was also one of the eight founding organizations of the Washington Academy of Sciences."

There are 200+ papers cited here:

80 posted on 08/26/2004 12:22:56 PM PDT by Michael_Michaelangelo
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