Keyes: Constitution protects machine gun ownership [describes Israel as an example]

Chicago Sun-Times ^ | August 25, 2004 | SCOTT FORNEK

[yonif]

Declaring "the front line of the war against terror once again involves the citizens," Republican Alan Keyes said Tuesday he believes the U.S. Constitution grants properly trained private individuals the right to own and carry machine guns.

"You're not talking about giving citizens access to atom bombs and other things," the former presidential candidate said. "That's ridiculous."

But the GOP nominee for U.S. Senate argued the founding fathers intended the Second Amendment to allow people to carry the types of weapons "customarily carried in those days by ordinary infantry soldiers."

"And, yes, does that mean that in this day and age people would have the right to have access to the kind of the weapons our ordinary infantry people have access to? With proper training and so forth to make sure that they could handle them successfully, that's exactly what was meant."

Keyes made the remarks at a news conference he called to attack the "ideological extremism" of his Democratic opponent, state Sen. Barack Obama.

The Republican lit into Obama for voting against a bill in Springfield earlier this year that would have allowed people who use handguns to fend off home invaders or attackers to argue self-defense as a possible legal defense against prosecution for violating any local anti-firearm possession ordinances.

The measure passed the Legislature with bi-partisan support, but Gov. Blagojevich vetoed it last week.

Keyes called Obama's vote against the measure an "appalling . . . lack of common sense."

"This seems to be a man who is absolutely determined to make the world safe for criminals, while making sure that law-abiding citizens have no opportunity to defend themselves against the criminals," Keyes said.

Keyes said he supports a system in which guns would be treated similarly to automobiles, with people being required to undergo different levels of training before they would be allowed to own and carry various sorts of weapons.

"I always remind -- even people who support the Second Amendment -- that it has two parts: the right to keep and bear" arms, Keyes said. " 'Bear' means to carry, to carry around. . . . I think it has been proven empirically that . . . allowing law-abiding citizens this access to conceal-carry actually reduces crime."

Keyes said he owns two firearms himself: a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol and a .38-caliber "six-shooter." But he said he does not keep them at his new home in Calumet City.

Keyes only indirectly answered a reporter's question about whether he would "be comfortable if the entire society was walking around with Uzis, as long as they were properly trained."

"Have you ever been to Israel?" Keyes asked the reporter. "Because if you've ever been to Israel, you wouldn't ask that question. And in the midst of terrifying dangers, you walk around the streets of Israel and you see every other person carrying arms and Uzis and so forth and so on, and believe me, you do not feel less safe on that account."

Machine guns, or fully automatic weapons, are firearms that fire multiple shots with a single pull of the trigger.

Thomas Ahern, a spokesman for the Chicago division of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said private individuals can only own such weapons if they apply with the bureau and clear a series of hurdles, including a background check, fingerprinting and the OK of local law enforcement officials. Additional paperwork is required any time the weapon is to be transported.

"It is heavily regulated," Ahern said.

A spokesman for Obama defended the Democrat's record on guns.

"Certainly he believes in the Second Amendment, but he also believes in common-sense gun safety laws, such as the federal ban on military-style assault weapons." said spokesman Robert Gibbs. "If Alan Keyes truly was concerned about public safety, that would be his position, as well."

[yonif]

"Have you ever been to Israel?" Keyes asked the reporter. "Because if you've ever been to Israel, you wouldn't ask that question. And in the midst of terrifying dangers, you walk around the streets of Israel and you see every other person carrying arms and Uzis and so forth and so on, and believe me, you do not feel less safe on that account."

[Captain Kirk]

He's not perfect but there is something very refreshing about this guy. He actually cares about ideas!

[BibChr]

Well...he's probably right.

An armed society is a polite society.

Dan

[Jim Robinson]

Woo hoo!! Go Alan Keyes!!

[narby]

OH, this is what I was afraid of with Keyes.

He's right, of course. But what a headline the Dems can run with. They'll crucify him.

[Captain Kirk]

"Common sense" gun laws. What a bromide. Obama is a computer composite of the perfect politician.

[SJackson]

Terrible example, Israel has very restrictive gun laws, though no one will know the difference.

[TomasUSMC]

"This seems to be a man who is absolutely determined to make the world safe for criminals, while making sure that law-abiding citizens have no opportunity to defend themselves against the criminals," Keyes said.

---

Feel the pain obywanasama, feel the pain.

Keyes needs now to attack Oby's manhood, his pride, get him pissed off so much that he starts debating Keyes.

We need 527s to get after obysama just like we did vs Kerry.

Make oby to come out from his shield wall so Keyes can get a hold of his skinny butt.

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[adam_az]

"Have you ever been to Israel?" Keyes asked the reporter. "Because if you've ever been to Israel, you wouldn't ask that question. And in the midst of terrifying dangers, you walk around the streets of Israel and you see every other person carrying arms and Uzis and so forth and so on, and believe me, you do not feel less safe on that account."

Israel actually has strict gun control. It's hard for civillians to get weapons unless they are in the reserves, live in a settlement, carry large amounts of cash, or are public transportation or cab drivers.

[Buell_X1-1200]

Ahh, Yes!

"The Republican lit into Obama for voting against a bill in Springfield earlier this year that would have allowed people who use handguns to fend off home invaders or attackers to argue self-defense as a possible legal defense against prosecution for violating any local anti-firearm possession ordinances."

There's nothing like the smell of filling a burglar full of hot lead ...

[MD_Willington_1976]

Yeah but machine guns aren't all they are cracked up to be...although I wouldn't mind owning a nice MP5 submachine gun ..they don't have to be fully automatic...3 round burst will suffice.

MD

[yonif]

Terrible example, Israel has very restrictive gun laws, though no one will know the difference.

Of course. But I saw Keyes relate to Israel not in terms of the gun laws, but in terms of having the kinds of guns he was talking about, but with people having proper training to use them.

Keyes only indirectly answered a reporter's question about whether he would "be comfortable if the entire society was walking around with Uzis, as long as they were properly trained."

[TomasUSMC]

He's right, of course. But what a headline the Dems can run with. They'll crucify him.
===
Nah. Keyes is baiting him. Keyes is right. Criminals have full auto weapons, but Citizens can't even have a single shot musket if we get the draconian gun laws Oby and his friends want.

Heck, the Dems run with lies anyway, and they are trying to nail Keyes anyway, we can't be afraid doing something to offend the dems, when they already are offended 110 percent.

Realize - that the dems hate those who wish to save 3000 babies a day.

[escapefromboston]

go Alan, wish I could vote for this guy

[yonif]

Yup. See my comment on #14.

[SJackson]

A couple years old, there has been some liberalization, but not much.

Firearms in Israel

Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc.
P.O. Box 270143
Hartford, WI 53027

Phone (262) 673-9745
Fax (262) 673-9746

---

Many have asked about the easy availability of firearms in the State of Israel, and whether or not they can bring their guns with them when visiting or settling there. Some have visited Israel, or have seen photographs of people walking the streets in Israel carrying firearms. Nearly everyone interested in the preservation of the Second Amendment in America points to Israel as proof of how ordinary citizens, armed and trained, are a deterrent to crime and terrorism. And it's true! However, a quick glance at the rigid gun laws in Israel will show that it has far stricter firearms laws than many people, including myself, previously thought. Enjoy reading the translation as much as I enjoyed translating the document!

In liberty,
Rabbi R. Mermelstein

---

The Israel Dept. of the Interior makes notification to the general public the requirements necessary for the obtaining of a permit to possess a firearm:

1. Applicant must be a permanent resident of Israel for 3 consecutive years prior to making application for a firearms permit.

2. Applicant must be 21 years of age.

3. The permit request must be for personal use, not to engage in the business of firearms sales.

4. Applicant must fall into one of the following categories:

a. Part-time reservist (volunteer) for 3 years- may own 1 handgun
b. Such a reservist (volunteer) is a member of a gun club- may own 1 rifle
c. Professional, licensed public transportation driver, transporting a minimum of 5 passengers- may own 1 handgun
d. Licensed animal control officer- may own 2 hunting rifles, *not* full automatic weapons, or semi-automatic weapons with a limited capacity magazine.
e. Full-time dealer of jewelry or large sums of cash or valuables- may own 1 handgun

West Bank and Gaza Strip Settlers:

1. A resident in a militarily strategic buffer zone, essential to the security of the State of Israel- may own 1 handgun

2. A business owner in these geographic areas- may own 1 handgun

Veterans:

1. Veterans of the Regular Army honorably discharged with the rank of noncommissioned officer, and veterans of the Reserve Army with the rank of regimental commander- may own 1 handgun

2. Retired law enforcement officers with the rank of sergeant- may own 1 handgun

3. Retired prison guards with the rank of squadron commander- may own 1 handgun

Individuals:

Upon presenting documentation that one is about to receive a souvenir, a prize, an inheritance, or an award of appreciation from the Israel military.

[savagesusie]

Yes, he cares about ideas---and he is very attentive to the meaning of every word--such as "bear". His command of the English language is excellent and very consistent with logic. That is why I like him.

[k2blader]

I wish more Republicans, instead of cowering at the feet of the media, would as unwaveringly voice the conservative ideas they claim to support.