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Exposed: Scandal of double voters (68% are Democrats)
nydailynews.com ^ | August 21, 2004 | RUSS BUETTNER

Posted on 08/22/2004 10:08:07 AM PDT by Andy from Beaverton

Exposed: Scandal
of double voters

With debate over the 2000 election still raging, thousands of people illegally register in both New York City and Florida, which could swing an election.

With debate over the 2000 election still raging, thousands of people illegally register in both New York City and Florida, which could swing an election.
Some 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both the city and Florida, a shocking finding that exposes both states to potential abuses that could alter the outcome of elections, a Daily News investigation shows.

Registering in two places is illegal in both states, but the massive snowbird scandal goes undetected because election officials don't check rolls across state lines.

The finding is even more stunning given the pivotal role Florida played in the 2000 presidential election, when a margin there of 537 votes tipped a victory to George W. Bush.

Computer records analyzed by The News don't allow for an exact count of how many people vote in both places, because millions of names are regularly purged between elections.

But The News found that between 400 and 1,000 registered voters have voted twice in at least one election, a federal offense punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

One was Norman Siegel, 84, who is registered as a Republican in both Pinellas Park, Fla., and Briarwood, Queens. Siegel has voted twice in seven elections, including the last four presidential races, records show.

Officials in both states acknowledge that voting in multiple states is something of a perfect crime, one officials don't have the means to catch.

"I can't imagine how the supervisors would have access to that information," said Jenny Nash, spokeswoman for the Florida secretary of state. "As far as I know, cross-state registry has not been discussed."

The News' investigation also found:

  • Of the 46,000 registered in both states, 68% are Democrats, 12% are Republicans and 16% didn't claim a party.

  • Nearly 1,700 of those registered in both states requested that absentee ballots be mailed to their home in the other state, where they are also registered. But that doesn't raise red flags with officials in either place.

    Efforts to prevent people from registering and voting in more than one state rely mostly on the honor system.

    New registrants are required to supply a prior address, which kicks in a notification process to election officials in the other jurisdiction. Officials also cross-check change-of-address records from the U.S. Postal Service.

    Both procedures largely count on the honesty of the person registering. And neither would catch people who have homes in both places - including the thousands of snowbirds, the term for Northerners who winter in southern climes.

    "There's no extensive investigation normally on a voter registration form," said Steven Richman, general counsel for the city Board of Elections. "We accept it at its face value."

    Eliminating the potential to vote in multiple states would require creating a national voter registration system with federally assigned voter ID numbers, said Allan Lichtman, a history professor at American University in Washington and a voting rights expert.

    "I don't think the country is ready for that," Lichtman said. "It may well be that a few hundred people spilling over and voting twice may be an inevitable friction within the system."

    Florida election officials were widely criticized after the 2000 election for instituting policies that resulted in thousands of African-Americans, who tend to vote Democratic, being turned away at the polls.

    Republican officials are battling similar charges in this year's election.

    Glenda Hood, the Florida secretary of state appointed by Gov. Jeb Bush in 2002, created a list of felons to be purged from the voter rolls. But the methodology used to create the list guaranteed few Hispanics, who typically vote Republican in Florida, would be purged, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported.

    In another problem, The ­Miami Herald reported that more than 2,000 convicted felons on the list had regained their voting rights after receiving clemency. Hood has opened an internal investigation.

    An advocacy group, People for the American Way, has asked U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft to open a federal probe.

    But for all the fire Florida takes, there's no hint that New York's election officials are performing any better.

    At the city and state level, the election boards are deeply politicized patronage mills that rely on aging technology.

    The Help America Vote Act of 2002, passed in response to the 2000 election debacle, requires all states to create statewide voter registration databases by Jan. 1, 2006.

    Florida already has created the statewide registry, though it doesn't yet fully comply with the new law.

    Like most things in Albany, a bill needed to implement the federal law is stalled in the Legislature, so even the federal money already received can't be spent.

    There are no plans to match the registries across states.

    The News contacted more than a dozen people registered in both places, some of whom have voted twice in the same election. Most described themselves as native New Yorkers who briefly flirted with Florida.

    Barbara Donovan, 59, was a transplanted New Yorker living in Florida when she visited her daughter in the city on Sept. 11, 2001. Overcome by solidarity with her hometown, she decided to move back. She registered to vote from her daughter's apartment. But her mother became ill and she returned to Florida.

    Her registrations in both ­places remain active, but Donovan has never voted twice. "I guess if you were some kind of zealot, you could vote in both places," Donovan said. "And last time the election was so close, it really makes you wonder."

    Parties can count on 'em–twice

    Norman Seigel puts a new twist on the political adage "vote early, and often."

    In Siegel's case, you could add "over and over again."

    Siegel (no relation to the civil rights lawyer of the same name) has voted twice in seven elections since 1988, including four presidential races, ­records show.

    Registered as a Republican at his home in Briarwood, Queens, and in Pinellas Park, Fla., Siegel has usually filed an absentee ballot in one or both places.

    Reached at his Florida home, Siegel interrupted a News reporter who was telling him that thousands of people are registered to vote in both states.

    "That's illegal," Siegel interjected. "You have to pick one place as your residence and vote there."

    Told that the records show he maintains registrations in both places, Siegel said he had not voted in Florida, then said he had not voted in New York.

    When he was told that records show he has voted in both places, Siegel cut off the conversation. "I have to go," he said.

    Irving and Magdolna Hertz of Borough Park, Brooklyn, also made a habit of being counted - twice. Magdolna, 85, voted in both New York and Florida during the November general elections in 1996, 1997 and 1998. Irving, 91, did the same in 1996 and 1998. Each time, they both mailed absentee ballots to ­Miami and voted at the polls in Brooklyn.

    Reached on the phone in Brooklyn, Irving Hertz interupted a reporter before a question could be asked.

    "I'm not here today," Hertz said and hung up. He did not return later calls.

    Several New Yorkers who have voted twice in elections said it happened by accident.

    Joseph Moschella, 59, a retired Transit Authority supervisor, said his dual vote in the 2000 presidential election was a mistake caused by his annual snowbird migration.

    The registered Republican in Melbourne Beach, Fla., and on Staten Island said he thought his absentee ballot to Florida hit the mail too late, so he voted in New York as well.

    "What happened was, I mailed it, but wanted to make sure I got my vote," Moschella said. "I'm pretty sure if you don't mail it by a certain date it's void."

    Edwin Peterson, 66, a registered Democrat in Palm Coast, Fla., and St. Albans, Queens, attributed his dual vote in the 2000 election to his distrust of the party running the Sunshine State.

    "That was a situation where Florida is so messed up with the Republicans, you don't know if your vote is even going to be counted," Peterson said. "It's been like that forever."

    Russ Buettner



TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; US: Florida; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 2000election; 2004electionfraud; allanlichtman; corruptdems; democratscheat; dirtytricks; fraud; howtostealanelection; rattricks; scampaign; votefraud; voterfraud
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To: ProudVet77

68% Dem, 12 Republican, but everyone they cite is Republican.


81 posted on 08/22/2004 5:45:53 PM PDT by Hildy (John Edwards is to Dick Cheney what Potsie was to the Fonz.)
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To: Betaille

Exactly. Being registered in two places is not a crime. Voting in two places is. You are not responsible for the bureaucracy from purging you from the rolls. It happened to me too, except this was from two different counties in the same state!


82 posted on 08/22/2004 5:47:57 PM PDT by AmishDude (I call on John Kerry to release . . . his own book!)
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To: Andy from Beaverton

Should be easy for someone to get the lists from S.FL and NYC and crosscheck.

What are the penalties for voting/being registered in multiple locations?


83 posted on 08/22/2004 6:00:11 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Not Fonda Kerry in '04 // Vets Against Kerry)
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To: AmishDude
Exactly. Being registered in two places is not a crime. Voting in two places is. You are not responsible for the bureaucracy from purging you from the rolls. It happened to me too, except this was from two different counties in the same state!

Wrong. If you read the article, you'd know that registering in both states is a crime. What is law is not a mere function of your whims ... unless you're a socialist or a communist. And I have no doubt, that thousands of those double-registrants did so, with intent to engage in voter fraud. Similarly, thousands of Florida voters -- most of them black -- engaged in voter fraud in 2000.

84 posted on 08/22/2004 6:57:11 PM PDT by mrustow ("And when Moses saw the golden calf, he shouted out to the heavens, 'Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!'")
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To: Andy from Beaverton
LOL! 12% are republicans and they choose to illustrate an R

"One was Norman Siegel, 84, who is registered as a Republican in both Pinellas Park, Fla., and Briarwood, Queens. Siegel has voted twice in seven elections, including the last four presidential races, records show. "

85 posted on 08/22/2004 7:02:43 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: SpyGuy
"Mr. Russ Buettner, Daily News Staff Writer. I nominate him for the "Joseph Goebbels Propaganda Award."

I'll second that.

86 posted on 08/22/2004 7:04:44 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: ProudVet77

"Lets go back to an old fashioned idea, whatever address you use on your Federal taxes is your state of record. If you don't file you don't vote. "

A great suggestion! Then add one more factor, you must have a valid ID/with current picture confirming that address.

Your suggestion could be taken to the state level with state income taxes.


87 posted on 08/23/2004 5:00:11 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I'm a donor to the Swift Boat Vets fund. Have you donated? If not please do it now!)
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To: ridesthemiles
"Gee--they wouldn't do that, would they? We don't have the money to chase this."

There is an EASY solution to this problem. Let the parties police this. Make the voters rolls available. Put a bounty on each double voter found. $1000 fine for double voting, 25% goes to the finder. The government makes a killing.

88 posted on 08/23/2004 2:41:37 PM PDT by Onelifetogive (* Sarcasm tag is always required. No sarcasm is sufficiently obvious for some people.)
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To: Andy from Beaverton
So, while NYT hacks like Bob Herbert are whining about imaginary problems with voting machines (“A Chill in Florida”, August 23), some real fraud is going on. Oh, that’s right, this benefits the DNC, so don’t mention it.

Nothing to see here, people. Move along…

I especially love the quote from the democrat voter in the last two paragraphs. Basically, this drongo is saying that “Well, I just know the Republicans have rigged things, so my voting twice is OK”. Great! An electorate with no morals or ethics – just what the founding fathers feared more than anything else.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

89 posted on 08/24/2004 5:20:03 AM PDT by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism.)
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To: concerned about politics

Notice it was 68% of democrats who do this and only 12% of repubs, but 66% of those questioned in the article were the repubs, obviously ashamed since they didn't want to talk by their actions, however notice the democrat proudly boasts of casting two votes. To me there is a difference in the attitude, not only the numbers. The repubs knew they were caught and in their shame didn't want to talk, the dem thinks it is his right to commit fraud because of his perceived opinion on how he htinks the government is run--who wants to take bet this is one of the dems who was claiming they were disenfranchised even though he had one more vote than the majority of Americans? So between the uncounted military vote and fraudulant vote of lying seniors, Bush won Florida handily, probably the popular vote too by a hair if all the dead and nearly dead voting twice vote is taken out.


90 posted on 08/24/2004 5:27:27 AM PDT by cupcakes
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To: Cinnamon Girl

Why not indeed! With the country virtually split, it needs to be that much more precise now because ANY voter fraud could produce a fraudulant winner.


91 posted on 08/24/2004 5:29:00 AM PDT by cupcakes
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To: Betaille

That wouldn't be your faulth though, however if you fraudulantly voted in both places, that is your responsibility.


92 posted on 08/24/2004 5:30:57 AM PDT by cupcakes
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To: Andy from Beaverton

I knew there was no way in hades that the Dims could be getting as many votes as they tend to get. I talk to people all the time and I'm constantly amazed at how many do NOT like the left. But to see the national results almost always the race is "close". I don't live under a rock either and I talk to people all over this country on a daily basis (I'm a computer network technician these days).

Now I know why


93 posted on 08/24/2004 5:31:43 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Goodnight Chesty, wherever you may be.)
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To: jsbankston

That is a seperate issue. The vote for president is a vote for a person in charge of the ENTIRE nation--you should only be able to vote once in that election.


94 posted on 08/24/2004 5:50:49 AM PDT by cupcakes
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To: phroebe

You the NY Dem bozo makes no sense either. He could have chose one or the other. Since NY is so predominantly dem, he could have foregone voting at "home" and just put his vote in in Florida and then his issue would have been addressed and I bet his homestate still would have gone dem. His issue isn't even valid--now if someone lived in two swing states, even though it is wrong, I can see his point of basically wanting to assure the election one was or the other(fraud still), but I guess my point is he committed fraud for absolutel no legitamate reasons since his homestate is a rat stronghold anyway. I compare the attitudes of those they spoke with. The other two obviously scurrying away in shame, knowing they had been caught and the rat brazen and proud of the fact that he voted as he did(and also attempting to foist his fraud on the backs of other people(the pubs in Florida). It makes me wonder if dem seniors are not encouraged and supported in commiting fraud because they are so brazen in their fraud. The numbers support that one side may encourage it too because they are so wildly lopsided in who is doing it.


95 posted on 08/24/2004 6:03:52 AM PDT by cupcakes
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To: Kaslin

Well, friend, you are honest, probably like most who vote in the US. Obviously there are people on both sides, a higher percentage being dems, who are willing to commit fraud and essentially REALLY disenfranchise other votes by voting twice in a presidential election.


96 posted on 08/24/2004 6:05:02 AM PDT by cupcakes
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To: Radix

I'm with you Radix. I've always felt very strongly that only those actually paying taxes or at least those not accepting government assistance, specifically welfare, food stamps, or WIC should have a say so in economic policy. Perhaps a suspension of voting rights as long as you accept gov. assistance, or partial suspension(1/2 a vote since they still pay fica). Certainly would be a motivation to get off of it quickly and would disrupt those that encourage voters on assistance to vote dem with enticements like cigs and th elike


97 posted on 08/24/2004 6:10:02 AM PDT by cupcakes
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To: coconutt2000
I think with about 12% of the dual registered voters being Republicans, it sure seemed unfair to identify so many of them compared to the Democrats, who committed the majority of the crime.

Naw, that's a good thing. If the press fosters the perception that Republicans are getting an unfair advantage, there might actually be pressure from the MSM to change the laws...
98 posted on 08/24/2004 6:13:39 AM PDT by beezdotcom (I'm usually either right or wrong...)
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