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Exposed: Scandal of double voters (68% are Democrats)
nydailynews.com ^ | August 21, 2004 | RUSS BUETTNER

Posted on 08/22/2004 10:08:07 AM PDT by Andy from Beaverton

Exposed: Scandal
of double voters

With debate over the 2000 election still raging, thousands of people illegally register in both New York City and Florida, which could swing an election.

With debate over the 2000 election still raging, thousands of people illegally register in both New York City and Florida, which could swing an election.
Some 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both the city and Florida, a shocking finding that exposes both states to potential abuses that could alter the outcome of elections, a Daily News investigation shows.

Registering in two places is illegal in both states, but the massive snowbird scandal goes undetected because election officials don't check rolls across state lines.

The finding is even more stunning given the pivotal role Florida played in the 2000 presidential election, when a margin there of 537 votes tipped a victory to George W. Bush.

Computer records analyzed by The News don't allow for an exact count of how many people vote in both places, because millions of names are regularly purged between elections.

But The News found that between 400 and 1,000 registered voters have voted twice in at least one election, a federal offense punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

One was Norman Siegel, 84, who is registered as a Republican in both Pinellas Park, Fla., and Briarwood, Queens. Siegel has voted twice in seven elections, including the last four presidential races, records show.

Officials in both states acknowledge that voting in multiple states is something of a perfect crime, one officials don't have the means to catch.

"I can't imagine how the supervisors would have access to that information," said Jenny Nash, spokeswoman for the Florida secretary of state. "As far as I know, cross-state registry has not been discussed."

The News' investigation also found:

  • Of the 46,000 registered in both states, 68% are Democrats, 12% are Republicans and 16% didn't claim a party.

  • Nearly 1,700 of those registered in both states requested that absentee ballots be mailed to their home in the other state, where they are also registered. But that doesn't raise red flags with officials in either place.

    Efforts to prevent people from registering and voting in more than one state rely mostly on the honor system.

    New registrants are required to supply a prior address, which kicks in a notification process to election officials in the other jurisdiction. Officials also cross-check change-of-address records from the U.S. Postal Service.

    Both procedures largely count on the honesty of the person registering. And neither would catch people who have homes in both places - including the thousands of snowbirds, the term for Northerners who winter in southern climes.

    "There's no extensive investigation normally on a voter registration form," said Steven Richman, general counsel for the city Board of Elections. "We accept it at its face value."

    Eliminating the potential to vote in multiple states would require creating a national voter registration system with federally assigned voter ID numbers, said Allan Lichtman, a history professor at American University in Washington and a voting rights expert.

    "I don't think the country is ready for that," Lichtman said. "It may well be that a few hundred people spilling over and voting twice may be an inevitable friction within the system."

    Florida election officials were widely criticized after the 2000 election for instituting policies that resulted in thousands of African-Americans, who tend to vote Democratic, being turned away at the polls.

    Republican officials are battling similar charges in this year's election.

    Glenda Hood, the Florida secretary of state appointed by Gov. Jeb Bush in 2002, created a list of felons to be purged from the voter rolls. But the methodology used to create the list guaranteed few Hispanics, who typically vote Republican in Florida, would be purged, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported.

    In another problem, The ­Miami Herald reported that more than 2,000 convicted felons on the list had regained their voting rights after receiving clemency. Hood has opened an internal investigation.

    An advocacy group, People for the American Way, has asked U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft to open a federal probe.

    But for all the fire Florida takes, there's no hint that New York's election officials are performing any better.

    At the city and state level, the election boards are deeply politicized patronage mills that rely on aging technology.

    The Help America Vote Act of 2002, passed in response to the 2000 election debacle, requires all states to create statewide voter registration databases by Jan. 1, 2006.

    Florida already has created the statewide registry, though it doesn't yet fully comply with the new law.

    Like most things in Albany, a bill needed to implement the federal law is stalled in the Legislature, so even the federal money already received can't be spent.

    There are no plans to match the registries across states.

    The News contacted more than a dozen people registered in both places, some of whom have voted twice in the same election. Most described themselves as native New Yorkers who briefly flirted with Florida.

    Barbara Donovan, 59, was a transplanted New Yorker living in Florida when she visited her daughter in the city on Sept. 11, 2001. Overcome by solidarity with her hometown, she decided to move back. She registered to vote from her daughter's apartment. But her mother became ill and she returned to Florida.

    Her registrations in both ­places remain active, but Donovan has never voted twice. "I guess if you were some kind of zealot, you could vote in both places," Donovan said. "And last time the election was so close, it really makes you wonder."

    Parties can count on 'em–twice

    Norman Seigel puts a new twist on the political adage "vote early, and often."

    In Siegel's case, you could add "over and over again."

    Siegel (no relation to the civil rights lawyer of the same name) has voted twice in seven elections since 1988, including four presidential races, ­records show.

    Registered as a Republican at his home in Briarwood, Queens, and in Pinellas Park, Fla., Siegel has usually filed an absentee ballot in one or both places.

    Reached at his Florida home, Siegel interrupted a News reporter who was telling him that thousands of people are registered to vote in both states.

    "That's illegal," Siegel interjected. "You have to pick one place as your residence and vote there."

    Told that the records show he maintains registrations in both places, Siegel said he had not voted in Florida, then said he had not voted in New York.

    When he was told that records show he has voted in both places, Siegel cut off the conversation. "I have to go," he said.

    Irving and Magdolna Hertz of Borough Park, Brooklyn, also made a habit of being counted - twice. Magdolna, 85, voted in both New York and Florida during the November general elections in 1996, 1997 and 1998. Irving, 91, did the same in 1996 and 1998. Each time, they both mailed absentee ballots to ­Miami and voted at the polls in Brooklyn.

    Reached on the phone in Brooklyn, Irving Hertz interupted a reporter before a question could be asked.

    "I'm not here today," Hertz said and hung up. He did not return later calls.

    Several New Yorkers who have voted twice in elections said it happened by accident.

    Joseph Moschella, 59, a retired Transit Authority supervisor, said his dual vote in the 2000 presidential election was a mistake caused by his annual snowbird migration.

    The registered Republican in Melbourne Beach, Fla., and on Staten Island said he thought his absentee ballot to Florida hit the mail too late, so he voted in New York as well.

    "What happened was, I mailed it, but wanted to make sure I got my vote," Moschella said. "I'm pretty sure if you don't mail it by a certain date it's void."

    Edwin Peterson, 66, a registered Democrat in Palm Coast, Fla., and St. Albans, Queens, attributed his dual vote in the 2000 election to his distrust of the party running the Sunshine State.

    "That was a situation where Florida is so messed up with the Republicans, you don't know if your vote is even going to be counted," Peterson said. "It's been like that forever."

    Russ Buettner



TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; US: Florida; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 2000election; 2004electionfraud; allanlichtman; corruptdems; democratscheat; dirtytricks; fraud; howtostealanelection; rattricks; scampaign; votefraud; voterfraud
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To: Boundless

For all the headaches it would cause, I would like to see a two-tier voting system, that allowed "double voting".

One would have a Federal voting number (SS#?) and declare when registering which state(s) would issue them a LOCAL-ONLY ballot; and which single state would issue them a complete ballot.

"Taxation without Representation..." People with more than one home; RVers; others, who spend approximately equal time in multiple states get screwed by one or the other on LOCAL issues that affect their local taxes, zoning issues, and referenda/initiatives.

Can of worms? You bet; but that is what we 'hire' politicians to untangle.!


41 posted on 08/22/2004 10:54:12 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: Andy from Beaverton; AngieGOP; July 4th; concerned about politics; coconutt2000; ProudVet77; ...
<sarcasm>What a fine piece of journalism by Russ Buettner and the Daily News.<sarcasm>

The article states (in the 10th paragraph):

Of the 46,000 registered in both states, 68% are Democrats, 12% are Republicans and 16% didn't claim a party.

Yet the first example they give (in the 6th paragraph) of a dual voter is a Republican:

One was Norman Siegel, 84, who is registered as a Republican in both Pinellas Park, Fla., and Briarwood, Queens. Siegel has voted twice in seven elections, including the last four presidential races, records show.

Siegel (and his Republican affiliation) is again mentioned in the middle of the article (paragraphs 32 through 39), under the bold sectional heading "Parties can count on 'em–twice":

Norman Seigel puts a new twist on the political adage "vote early, and often."

In Siegel's case, you could add "over and over again."

Siegel (no relation to the civil rights lawyer of the same name) has voted twice in seven elections since 1988, including four presidential races, ­records show.

Registered as a Republican at his home in Briarwood, Queens, and in Pinellas Park, Fla., Siegel has usually filed an absentee ballot in one or both places.

But wait, here's another Republican dual voter they can make an example of (paragraphs 44 & 45) while still not mentioning any Democrat dual voters:

Joseph Moschella, 59, a retired Transit Authority supervisor, said his dual vote in the 2000 presidential election was a mistake caused by his annual snowbird migration.

The registered Republican in Melbourne Beach, Fla., and on Staten Island said he thought his absentee ballot to Florida hit the mail too late, so he voted in New York as well.

In fact, it's not until the LAST TWO paragraphs of this story (paragraphs 47 & 48) that they specifically mention a Democrat dual voter, and even then they blame his crimes on the Republicans:

Edwin Peterson, 66, a registered Democrat in Palm Coast, Fla., and St. Albans, Queens, attributed his dual vote in the 2000 election to his distrust of the party running the Sunshine State.

"That was a situation where Florida is so messed up with the Republicans, you don't know if your vote is even going to be counted," Peterson said. "It's been like that forever."

In fact, the word "Republican" is mentioned SEVEN times in the article, while the word "Democrat" is mentioned only THREE times.

And in the few paragraphs discussing methods for combating the crime of multiple voting, the Republicans are again demonized for (allegedly) denying votes to Democrat "African-Americans."

<sarcasm>Once again, kudos to Mr. Russ Buettner, Daily News Staff Writer. I nominate him for the "Joseph Goebbels Propaganda Award."<sarcasm>

42 posted on 08/22/2004 10:57:37 AM PDT by SpyGuy
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To: Andy from Beaverton

It isn't just the NY rats who double dip as rat voters.

Boston, New Hampshire, Maryland, and Pa have tons of snowbirds who vote absentee in their home states and by ballot in Floriduh and other winter snowbird states like Arizona, S. California and Texas.

Maybe a bigger double dipper are the college students who vote twice. They reverse the process and vote by absentee ballot in their home and again at the state their college is at.

Voting twice in a federal election should be made a severe federal crime right up there with treason.


43 posted on 08/22/2004 11:00:07 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I'm a donor to the Swift Boat Vets fund. Have you donated? If not please do it now!)
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To: Grampa Dave

IF I am taxed in both places, I should be represented in both places.


44 posted on 08/22/2004 11:02:17 AM PDT by jsbankston
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To: Grampa Dave
"I don't think the country is ready for that," Lichtman said. "It may well be that a few hundred people spilling over and voting twice may be an inevitable friction within the system."

"Inevitable friction" when lefties outnimber righties by 5 to 1. A federal case if the numbers are reversed.

45 posted on 08/22/2004 11:03:06 AM PDT by jwalsh07 (Donate to the Swifties, once again serving the nation selflessly)
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To: jsbankston

Maybe on state elections.

Are you saying that you deserve two votes to my vote for the presidential race this year?


46 posted on 08/22/2004 11:03:25 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I'm a donor to the Swift Boat Vets fund. Have you donated? If not please do it now!)
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To: jsbankston

So, by that reasoning, Donald Trump should be able to vote a gazillion times? No way. One person, one vote. That's how it SHOULD be. Unfortunately, most Dems are so 'honesty challenged' and full of hate for Bush, they'd vote as many times as they could this election. We've had FOUR years to fix the screw-ups and voter fraud from the 2000 election. What has been done? Next to nothing is my bet. (eor)


47 posted on 08/22/2004 11:07:43 AM PDT by Capricam
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To: jsbankston
I own property in four cities and two states. Seems to me that as a property owner I should have a voice in each city and each state.

Gee, I own an apartment with 64 units. As a property owner, I should be able to vote for each unit /sarcasm.

48 posted on 08/22/2004 11:09:37 AM PDT by D Rider
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To: jsbankston

Nope. State or property taxes should have nothing to do with federal elections. By that reasoning, why not allow upper level tax payers to vote more than once? They all probably own properties in multiple states. Your reasoning is flawed.


49 posted on 08/22/2004 11:10:53 AM PDT by Capricam
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To: SpyGuy

Absolutely correct. This is one for the Media Research Center "awards" book.


50 posted on 08/22/2004 11:11:36 AM PDT by Libertina (The Democrat Party: Ah the freedom to lie, fund 527s, and ban books with media approval.)
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To: jsbankston
A possible fix here is you vote in all 4 places for local elections. Once for each state in statewide elections. And only vote 1 time for each presidential elections.

I don't think federal and state election laws address your problem.

51 posted on 08/22/2004 11:11:41 AM PDT by demlosers
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To: jsbankston

a fair question - here's a link to the members of the 108th congress from NY:
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-bin/newseek.cgi?site=ctc&state=ny
19 Demos / 9 Pubs. And both senators are of course Demos.
My count might be off +/- 1
I bet if you check with NJ, CT, RI and MA you'd find quite a few double registered voters as many folks up here go south for the winter. And you'd also find they are at least as democrat as NY.
I'd also bet a bunch of NYers are also registered in VT.


52 posted on 08/22/2004 11:12:03 AM PDT by ProudVet77 (Kerry is Toast du Francai')
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To: A CA Guy

The double voting was an issue in the recounts that followed in the 2000 presidential. NJ and NY had snowbirds voting twice. The GOP knows it and this is why it is an issue now. They hope to stop these cheaters and alert them to the penalties. Each absentee ballot should have a warning in large print for anyone voting twice. They should also go after that scumbag that voted twice in the last 4 presidentials and make an example of him. A warning should also be posted at every poll.


53 posted on 08/22/2004 11:14:39 AM PDT by oldironsides
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To: jwalsh07

We had a conservative friend from Boston who died a couple of years ago. He and his wife wintered every winter in Palm Beach, Floriduh.

He was screaming about his fellow Bostonians by the thousands voting for Clintoon in 1992, 1996 and Gore in 2000 in Floriduh and Boston. He and his wife couldn't get the registrars in Florida or Boston to do a damn thing. He felt that the only way Gore came close to winning Floriduh was the rat snowbird voters all over Floriduh and that Zogby knew of this double dipping voting.

Out here on the West Coast, we have the same phenom with Rats from Washington and Oregon heading south in their RVs. Then, they vote in Arizona or S California.


54 posted on 08/22/2004 11:14:41 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I'm a donor to the Swift Boat Vets fund. Have you donated? If not please do it now!)
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To: Andy from Beaverton

Dems out-doubleregister Pubs by 5:1, yet the News focuses 1/3 of the story on a Pub offender.


55 posted on 08/22/2004 11:18:49 AM PDT by Paul_B
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To: Grampa Dave

"Maybe a bigger double dipper are the college students who vote twice. They reverse the process and vote by absentee ballot in their home and again at the state their college is at."

Your point is very well taken! I know a lot of people in MA and many are conservative. It's when you go to Cambridge
or the CT River Valley (UMass Amherst, Smith, Mt HollyJoke ect) where you find the leftists. All college students.
Lets go back to an old fashioned idea, whatever address you use on your Federal taxes is your state of record. If you don't file you don't vote.


56 posted on 08/22/2004 11:19:02 AM PDT by ProudVet77 (Kerry is Toast du Francai')
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To: oldironsides

I agree with all you say, but why not ONE voter data base that is attached to all the states that verifies one person one vote?
They would have to verify by address and SS# who they are and that should stop duplicates from being on voting rolls I would think.


57 posted on 08/22/2004 11:19:08 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Andy from Beaverton; All
This story pisses me off on so many levels... because of the obvious bias, as others have noticed (Oooohhh, the stupid incompetent Republicans in Florida [which everyone knows is run by Bush's evil brother] made me have to vote in Queens too!) What a maroon...

...and if a newspaper investigation could find this stuff out, and drivers license departments have their acts together, you would THINK that in this modern computerized world, those in charge of voter registration COULD insure that voters were only registered in ONE state, if they really wanted to, that is...

Just WHO is paying off the Federal Elections Commission under the table to keep this nationwide scandal so conveniently "overlooked", I wonder?

Rant off. Sorry about that. Living in Palm Beach County and all, this sort of article tends to get my hackles up!

Re-Elect "W" in '04!

58 posted on 08/22/2004 11:23:16 AM PDT by phroebe (Why would 250 Swift Boat Vets lie and risk complete economic ruination?)
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To: phroebe

The FEC is pretty much useless.
But these folks are breaking a federal law, so the DOJ owns their butts. The laws are on the books, enforce them. And if necessary raise the penalty.


59 posted on 08/22/2004 11:26:12 AM PDT by ProudVet77 (Kerry is Toast du Francai')
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To: Andy from Beaverton

Re the vote early and vote often. We have the Vote Early system here in Tennessee of which I always take advantage of, but I would never dream to drive to another county to vote again and would never dream to vote again on election day


60 posted on 08/22/2004 11:27:40 AM PDT by Kaslin (It took Kerry 40 minutes to react on September 11, 2001)
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