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Campaign mounted to recognize CCW In Federal Parks
TheHighRoad.org ^ | August 21, 2004 | various

Posted on 08/21/2004 10:36:08 AM PDT by Mulder

This was posted over on thehighroad.org. Also, Phil VanCleave, head of VCDL, has a thread posted over on packing.org.

There is currently a country wide campaign started this week to get the secretary of the Interior, (who packs herself) to change the policy and let CCW holders in U.S. Parks. Perhaps some of you have read this at Packing.org already. We should continue to contact the Secretary of the Interior, who could make the change without Congress' approval:

Ms. Gale Norton Secretary of the Interior U.S. Department of the Interior Dept. HG, 1849 C Street, NW Washington, DC 20240 Phone: (202) 208-7351 gale_norton@ios.doi.gov

How much do you want to bet that 3,100 emails and phone calls will get her attention?

Suggested email:

Dear Secretary Norton,

The regulations for federal parks need to be revised. Any citizen who is trusted by a state to carry a handgun for self-defense needs to be allowed to carry that handgun in federal parks. This can be accomplished easily using the same mechanism that is used in federal forests: have the park regulations assimilate the host state's firearms laws.

Criminals know no boundaries. Parks, often with remote areas, are not immune from violent crime. My right to defend my life and the lives of my family should not end at an artificial boundary that violent criminals will never respect.

Please let me know what you are going to do to protect my right to self-defense.

Sincerely, [name and address]


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; ccw; galenorton; guns; interior; nationalparks; parks
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To: coconutt2000
I'm more in favor of sending casual gun owners to the firing range until they know how to respect and handle their weapon responsibly. With the exception of violent criminals and the mentally incompetent, I don't advocate taking away weapons. Get real people... Stop reading what I write through the goggles you like to wear.

Who, exactly is a "casual gun owner"? Go to the sherrif's dept. and pay $90 bucks and EARN a CCW. Maybe THEN you may have a clue. I've been carrying since 1968. Lifetime member of the NRA. Member of SASS. Am I a "casual gun owner"? Or should I be a member of Special Forces, FBI, CIA, SS to lable me as a "not a casual owner"?

61 posted on 08/21/2004 3:05:29 PM PDT by Cobra64 (Babes should wear Bullet Bras - www.BulletBras.net)
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To: Melinda in TN
Right after that a ranger pulled alongside and asked me what I was doing riding alone in the mountains. I explained and while I was explaining he saw the gun. He stared at it just a second, looked at me and said "Have a nice day and be careful". He never mentioned the gun.

All of the dozen or so Rangers I've encountered seemed very friendly, and I doubt they've give anyone grief over carrying a gun.

The exception to this might be the Grand Canyon. A couple of the Rangers I saw there appeared to have a JBT mentality as they were stopping vehicles.

62 posted on 08/21/2004 3:05:57 PM PDT by Mulder (All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.-- Samuel Adams)
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To: glock rocks
You sleep in the trailer or like to backpack?

I just bought some new backpacking gear, and am eager to try it out.

63 posted on 08/21/2004 3:06:46 PM PDT by Mulder (All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.-- Samuel Adams)
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To: Mulder
Thats because we have to keep all the liberals surrounded in Seattle. :o)
64 posted on 08/21/2004 3:11:17 PM PDT by 12.7mm
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To: coconutt2000
I've seen some of these Barney Fife types that you're afraid of.
A few of them were wearing badges.

Having a CCW doesn't automatically eliminate someone from being a complete idiot with a handgun.
We fire maybe twenty rounds when qualifying for our permits.
The only way one becomes proficient with a handgun and mentally stable enough to handle any emotional situation while carrying it, is to pour several hundred rounds through it.
Too many people own guns but don't shoot them enough to become familiar with them.
Those are the ones to be afraid of.

65 posted on 08/21/2004 3:19:51 PM PDT by TexasCowboy
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To: glock rocks

We have have such an amendment already......:o)


66 posted on 08/21/2004 3:19:56 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Mulder

reciprocity with WA basically means that if I drive to FL I can leagally take a pistol with my current state laws all the way or are there limitaions? I need to look into this.


67 posted on 08/21/2004 3:23:08 PM PDT by 12.7mm
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To: Mulder

Arches is my favorite desert park. For some outstanding mountain backpacking, the Naturalist Basin in the high Uintas is amazing... snow melts by July so you can hike in, absolutely beautiful high country - many lakes around 10,000 ft. It's an awesome place. Do a google. If you don't want to hike in, check out Mirror or Moon lakes, also in the same general area. Oh, and yes, you can pack a rifle or sidearm, it's nat'l forest, not park.


68 posted on 08/21/2004 3:23:28 PM PDT by glock rocks (VK counter-intelligence)
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To: Cobra64

*sigh*

I've already repeated that I don't consider people with a CCW casual gun owners.

I think of casual gun owners as people who buy a gun for their protection, but don't bother learning anything about it. Who do you think are the most likely people to leave a hand gun in their house some place where their kids can get to it? Not someone with a CCW. That person has already demonstrated their respect for the weapon.

Like I've said before, it doesn't apply to you guys, and unless you guys are planning from suffering a major lapse of brain power, it never will.


69 posted on 08/21/2004 3:23:44 PM PDT by coconutt2000
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To: coconutt2000
Your first post on this thread:

Makes sense to me... But I still think we need to find some way to guarantee second amendment rights and ensure responsible gun ownership and use.

I would hate to be shot by a fellow camper because they were twitchy on the trigger.

Just how do you propose ensuring responsible gun ownership and use?

70 posted on 08/21/2004 3:30:57 PM PDT by glock rocks (VK counter-intelligence)
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To: TexasCowboy

That's what I'm saying. But the people who obviously don't need to spend more time at a firing range always jump all over me every time I promote responsible gun ownership...

I want to lower the barriers in place for law abiding citizens to get guns, and foster a gun ownership culture that encourages people to take their gun out to a range frequently enough to be a member of a range or club, hell let areas with large population of gun owners set up public gun ranges on public land where citizens can go fire their weapons without paying a range fee.

My idea for licensing exempted people who are in clubs from the renewal requirement of taking the safety test.

But the only thing anybody seems to hear is that I want to take away their guns, which is not true. I want more Americans to have guns, and I want them to become familiar and comfortable with them, while at the same time respecting them.


71 posted on 08/21/2004 3:32:37 PM PDT by coconutt2000
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To: glock rocks

Figure out a way to foster a popular gun culture, encourage people to use their weapons at firing ranges, and openly talk about gun ownership pretty much everywhere.

Figure that out without increasing government involvement, and I'll support that method over my idea for a "driver's license" like license.


72 posted on 08/21/2004 3:34:50 PM PDT by coconutt2000
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To: 12.7mm
reciprocity with WA basically means that if I drive to FL I can leagally take a pistol with my current state laws all the way or are there limitaions? I need to look into this.

Reciprocity means that your "permit" will be recognized in the state of interest. The laws of that particular state apply while you are there.

It's done on a state-by-state basis. Right now, there are about a dozen or so states that will recognize a Washington CCW permit (packing.org is a great website that has all the info for each state).

Washington recently passed a bill allowing for reciprocrity with other states with "similar" CCW issue laws to those in WA. Unfortunately, the bureacrats are being strict with their interpretation, so WA-FL reciprocity hasn't happened yet.

If you travel a lot out-of-state, I would recommend getting a non-resident Florida permit. They are easy to get, and with one, you'll be "legal" in almost 30 states. With a Florida non-resident permit, you'll be able to drive all the way from WA to FL and remain armed, so long as you pick the right route.

73 posted on 08/21/2004 3:35:43 PM PDT by Mulder (All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.-- Samuel Adams)
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To: coconutt2000
My idea for licensing exempted people who are in clubs from the renewal requirement of taking the safety test.

This "licensing" requirement, and "club membership", and "safety test" sounds WAY too much like how the Aussies and English got their foot in the door for eventual confiscation.

The anti-gunners might have been able to get away with this crap here, before the internet, but they can't now. We know what happened to the English and the Aussies once they "compromised" on licensing, testing, etc.... And gun owners are not going to allow that to happen here.

We are winning the battle at the state level, and don't need to start compromising now.

74 posted on 08/21/2004 3:39:37 PM PDT by Mulder (All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.-- Samuel Adams)
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To: Mulder

And my proposal for fostering a gun culture and open discussion of gun ownership directly counteracts the likelihood that government would ever be able to gather support because more people would own guns, and anti-gun legislators would remain in the minority.


75 posted on 08/21/2004 3:41:58 PM PDT by coconutt2000
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To: glock rocks
Arches is my favorite desert park

I was out there last December. The weather was perfect (sunny and cool). I didn't hike all the way out to the big arch (I was on a tight schedule), but hiked to the point where you can see. I definitely want to make it out there again.

For some outstanding mountain backpacking, the Naturalist Basin in the high Uintas is amazing

Thanks for the info. I can't wait to go out to Utah again for my next vacation.

76 posted on 08/21/2004 3:44:06 PM PDT by Mulder (All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.-- Samuel Adams)
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To: coconutt2000
Figure out a way to foster a popular gun culture, encourage people to use their weapons at firing ranges, and openly talk about gun ownership pretty much everywhere.

I don't need to figure that out, because I live in Utah. We have a popular gun culture, firing ranges, and you can usually strike up a conversation with just about anyone on the merits of a .308 vs. a 30.06

So, what method would you propose to use to foster such a culture in Hawaii?

77 posted on 08/21/2004 3:49:27 PM PDT by glock rocks (VK counter-intelligence)
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To: Mulder

I love this place.


78 posted on 08/21/2004 3:50:45 PM PDT by glock rocks (VK counter-intelligence)
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To: glock rocks

Good luck... this damned state is so liberal I get harassed for supporting Bush pretty much everywhere I open my mouth to try and convert someone.


79 posted on 08/21/2004 3:51:13 PM PDT by coconutt2000
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To: coconutt2000

At this point, I'll defer back to Mulder's post #74, and wish you the best.


80 posted on 08/21/2004 4:00:39 PM PDT by glock rocks (VK counter-intelligence)
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