Posted on 08/18/2004 8:24:34 PM PDT by Callahan
Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.
In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.
But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
citation please? (for form's sake)
yEAH, but whatever his actions in Nam, his actions in the states and in France were much worse. He directly met with and helped the enemy while the war was going on.
If we can get video of the things he did on TV with 527s, I think it will be more powerful.
Who knows, maybe we ARE saving the best for last?
He wasn't lying; he has admitted he was give bad information. Remember Elliot wasn't onsite...he had a desk job miles away. The reports he was given (by Kerry) was full of lies.
In a telephone interview Tuesday evening after he attended a Swift Boat Veterans strategy session in an Arlington hotel, Thurlow said he lost his Bronze Star citation more than 20 years ago. He said he was unwilling to authorize release of his military records because he feared attempts by the Kerry campaign to discredit him and other anti-Kerry veterans.
The Post filed an independent request for the documents with the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, which is the central repository for veterans' records. The documents were faxed to The Post by officials at the records center yesterday.
Let's remember, Thurlow wasn't the only eyewitness that day. It was a squadron of five PCFs. Apparently, there was a net in the river, and rightly or wrongly, they tried to sail around through a narrow gap. And there was a watermine planted right in that narrow gap. The PCF 3 was launched about six feet into the air. Other boats opened fire presuming, as in present-day Iraq, that the mine was remotely detontated as the opening of a high-firepower ambush. But they stopped shooting because they received no return fire.
As everyone knows, Kerry meanwhile - like some Ensign Parker in McHale's Navy - had panicked and ordered his craft out of the area. Rassman may have been sitting on the stern, eating a cookie (although there are something like five or six different stories about where he was, and on what boat). And if so, he was tossed overboard by Kerry's own actions.
Two other PCFs came up alongside the 3 boat to help keep it afloat. The third went to retrieve those tossed in the water. At some point, they noticed Rassman. But just as they approached to get Rassman, who may or may not have been coming up from the bottom for the second time (trying to avoid not gunfire but the propellers of the other PCFs moving around the 3 boat) Kerry's boat raced up and he dove to grab Rassman out of the water - 'saving his life'.
This is basically the account of Steve Gardner, as heard on a couple of different talk shows, Peck and O'Neill, as well.
The question, as many have just pointed out, is not what Thurlow says in his 'defense', but what accusation is being made, specifically, by 'Charlie'. Are they referring to the text of his citation? Are they simply referring to the 'spot report', written by Kerry? As for Thurlow's citation, Swift vets haven't posted it. He says he doesn't have a copy. But what he's saying is that what he knows of it personally did not suggest hostile fire, that day. That's how I read his comments.
We see this from the leftwing 'mainstream'. But people don't remember. Groups like mrc.org seems disorganized, and sometimes 'focus' on the wrong thing. The leftwing 'mainstream' do this, and that, and a year later, even the critics can't remember specific episodes.
Well, here's evidence for the file. I wonder if anyone will remember, a year from now? What's wrong with AP, someone asks? Why in the world would you accuse them of being Always Partisan? Well . . this, and so many other examples.
I think there's a lot of people POSTING HERE, who CANNOT be convinced that AP and Reuters, perhaps even the Wash Post, are consistently partisan and unprofessional. You don't have to convince ME. But I'm saddened to see how many prefer denial, in such things political.
We need to hope and pray that the records don't conveniently disappear in the mean time.
The mainstream media will go after the rest of the Swifties' records in an effort to discredit them. One down, 253 to go...
How come no freedom of information requests by the media to uncover Kerry's military files?
"All this could be resolved once and for all, if Kerry would release his records, or the media would demand to get them, which they don't."
Geezus, why all this bitchin' about getting the media to demand Kerry's records?! Forget that pansy line of action! Let's just do it ourselves and get the info out there!! FOIA is for everyone not just privileged media scum. No more excuses and waiting for Godot!! Enough said!
If you really have to ask THAT question, you don't belong on FR.
PCF-3 was the first boat "blown out of the water". And the other one would be???
WOW!!! Who knows what Kerry's records might show. They could really prove big time that he lies if they are inconsistent with what he has said since then. We need those records and they really don't want them exposed.
WOW!!! Who knows what Kerry's records might show. They could really prove big time that he lies if they are inconsistent with what he has said since then. We need those records and they really don't want them exposed.
I am confused - I thought the media claimed that the other Swifboat Vets knew nothing about Kerry's actions because they weren't on his boat. Now the media suddenly acknowledges - when it suits their purposes - that these people WERE serving in close proximity to Kerry.
Interestingly, I had no interest in buying this book until I saw this ComPost hatchet job. I just put in my order through the Conservative Book Club..
Well put. But this brings up the biggest question yet. Why did he have and where did he get all that clot from. It makes me think that he is a communist and a communist infiltrating ring was already grooming him to be a Senator or President. Way back then he was telling others that he would be President. Did he have any reason to believe this other then his own ego. Look how far that bazaar guy who took his own film footage has come. Who was coaching him? Does anyone else have any suggestions concerning his clout that allowed him to get all the awards that he did not deserve from the United States Military? This could be the bigger story hiding behind this one.
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