Records Counter a Critic of Kerry

Washington Post ^ | 8/19/04 | Michael Dobbs

[Callahan]

Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

[NavySEAL F-16]

Note how the Post "reporter" came to write this story -

I have my suspicions on how this came to be myself. Someone here a couple of days ago was "focused" on Thurlow's Bronze Star. He was like a dog with a bone. My radar went up .

Said it was coming from leftist sites and no one could answer his question about what Thurlow's citation said. He was posting on many of the bloggers sites that were following this story, as well and always asking about Thurlow.

He went on and on that this would be the breaker and that we needed to know what Thurlow's citation said.

[Callahan]

The problem here is that this story is becoming too complex for "regular" folk, who don't spend their nights cruising the blogs and FR.

It is disgraceful that the WP fails to mention Kerry's non-disclosure while they go after Thurlow. Masterful spin, as it even had me on the ropes for a minute.

[cake_crumb]

Thanks. I'm already on one of those JW threads. Forgot about it though.

[Texasforever]

I have been searching for a statement from Rassman where he said that he was actually hung up in the boat rigging and upside down when Kerry pulled him aboard.

[DaveMSmith]

The Washington Post used Kerry's dishonesty and, in particular, his dishonesty about Nixon and Cambodia as a springboard from which to launch their hatefest against a President which caused him to resign.

HUGE GRIN

Republican 'dirty tricks'? What goes around, comes around!

[fizziwig]

I am still fairly new to free republic (may 04) so maybe I will just have to get used to all the griping about the MSM and how unfair they are. Its like saying the sun rises in the east, or roseanne bar is fat, or kerry is a liar....seems like just a waste of words and time.

We are after the truth and that is all that should matter. The MSM is out to get Kerry elected and that is all that matters to them. The swifties knew this when they started their campaign against Kerry and should be well prepared to handle the glitches such as the Thurlow record.

I believe the swifties. However, i believe that above all else, this matter needs to be fully investigated. The WaPo article is a step in the direction of investigation. Yes, the MSM will twist it all up but at least they are giving the matter attention rather than stuffing it.

I am not the least bit discouraged by the article, I agree with others that ultimately it is a good thing because it gives the swifties more publicity and more interest in their book.

[tobyhill]

If the Post could get medal citations under the "Freedom of Information Act" then any media source should be able to get the ones of Kerry's Supporters? See if any other Bronze Star citations for that day was written the same way? One would be able to see if it came from a single source if the wording is the same.

[what's up]

I seem to remember O'Neill saying that the after-action reports of one incident (this one?) did not mention enemy fire. That included Kerry's own after-action report.

Maybe Mr. Dobbs needs to be encouraged to look at the after-action reports rather than the other documents which were written later.

[kabar]

Thurlow didn't write this, someone else did. The case the Compost makes later is that that Kerry didn't author his own requests for medals, and if Thurlow didn't know what was written in the reccomendations, Kerry didn't either.

If that is all the info we had I would agree with you. However, Kerry embelishes the story in Tour of Duty. He claims it was done under fire, which contradicts the other boat OICs' accounts. Kerry still hasn't released all the info on the awards do it is hard to say what part he had in authoring the award or the bogus after action report, which claims that Kerry suffered wounds to his buttocks and arm from the mine.

[Steven W.]

to add to that - Hurley, the former VVAW guy was debating O'Neill the other evening (Scarborough as I recall) and actually made a big deal about how badly Kerry's boat was - repeated the tale of a 2nd mine taking out his screws and rendering it inoperable - and then towed the PCF-3 boat.

[DaveMSmith]

And note that Thurlow has not filed for a 180 BECAUSE HE FEARED JOHN F KERRY!

[rolling_stone]

To: Tawiskaro
Third Party (General Public)
Just as any veteran has the right to display and/or wear duly authorized awards and medals, private citizens have the right to be sure that the person wearing those awards truly earned them. Certain information of any service members official military records are available under FOIA to the general public, with or WITHOUT that veteran's consent. These include:

Name
Service Number
Rank
Dates of Service
Awards and decorations
Place of entrance and separation
If the veteran is deceased:
Place of birth
Date and geographical location of death
Place of burial



Generally there is no charge for obtaining these records for the veteran, family members, or the general public. All requests must be made in writing and duly signed (cursive signature) within the previous year. While the Standard Form (SF 180) is NOT required in requests for information, it is recommended as it contains all pertinent information. The NPRC maintains records for more than 70 million individuals at NPRC-MPR, so the more information (Full Name, DOB, SSN, etc.) you provide, the easier it will be to locate the records for the correct individual. The form should be mailed to:

National Personnel Records Center
(Military Personnel Records)
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132-5100

http://www.homeofheroes.com/verify/replacement_medals.html



6 posted on 08/17/2004 8:28:57 PM PDT by rolling_stone

[bluecollarman]

Sorry but I was on the swift boat forums the other day and I ask specifily about this citation. I recieved no answer. I also asked about the after action reports. Nothing.

I hope they know how to handle this because it is going to hurt them. Don't anyone kid their selves. This will be a major talking point for the dems. Lanny will scream this to the top of his lungs.

Of course the Swifties knew about this Citation and they knew what was in it, and eventually it was coming out. It is hard to tell what the fall out will be.

I still support them and I bought the book and gave money. I think they will lose a lot of support now unless they come up with a better answer. Not from Freepers, but the undecided.

[kabar]

Typical WP hit piece. They will still have a hard time burying this story. Kerry has a lot to answer for besides the Bronze medal.

[woofie]

I think what you are seeing is the press saying "well this is fuzzy and that is fuzzy and it was a long time ago and no one knows for sure what happened" They are good at that

[FairOpinion]

I think we, collectively, need to keep our eye on the ball, and not let the liberals sidetrack the focus.

The point is that if Kerry released ALL his military records, those would be the best to disprove the allegations of the SwiftVets. Why isn't the media demanding THAT?

Any sensible person can figure out, that the accusations against Kerry, bad as they are, must be less damaging, than if the truth would come out in form of actual proof, from Kerry's records.

So the truth must be much worse than what the SwiftVets are saying.

Otherwise, Kerry would have released his records long ago, and showing them to everyone.

The issue is NOT Thurlow, the issue is KERRY.

Even if you throw out one accusation, that doesn't invalidate the dozens of others.

[Steven W.]

Boats were in, but it makes sense that they would lay down suppression fire 360 degrees around the crippled boat

This is what the SwiftVets have said - after the PCF-3 boat hit a mine the two boats which stayed laid down a lot of fire as standard operating procedure. They received no return fire. After things calmed down Kerry came back. Rassman, by his own admission, repeatedly stayed under the water. All he knew is that men (on the two remaining boats) were firing.

[sarasmom]

At the risk of starting a new popular catch phrase (as I did with the renowned "I stayed last night at a Holiday Inn Express")
I dated a MSM reporter once upon a time in my youth.
ONLY ONCE!!!
You have no idea how hard it is to get a restraining order against a MSM employee, unless/until you are forced to try!

[MJY1288]

In "Tour of Duty" John Kerry says that all other Swift Boats left the scene and he turned his boat around into enemy fire and rescued James Rassman.

The man who just spoke on Special Report, and is on the campaign trail with John Kerry as one of the "Band of Brothers", said that John Kerry did leave the scene and return to the other Swift Boats who were firing everything they had at both shores.

The above statement by one of John Kerry's own crew members is in direct conflict with John Kerry's own account.

[Mo1]

The WP is simply reading John Kerry's Citation is my bet

I'll bet you're right