[unspun]

There you have it.

[aruanan]

I have also made it clear that while I believe that the descendants of slaves would be helped by this period of tax relief, my firm goal and ultimate objective is to replace the income tax, and thereby free all Americans from this insidious form of tax slavery. It is well known that this is one of the key priorities of the Keyes campaign.

I knew it had to have been something like this. And it was. The problem with talking about something like this in depth and putting it into a context gives places like the Chicago Tribune plenty they can edit, recontextualize, and use to make mischief with.

[B Knotts]

Ah. Another thread in which liberal so-called "Republicans" will bash the GOP candidate for Senate in Illinois.

This place is really getting to resemble DU.

[willyboyishere]

"None Dare Call it Pandering"
btw, does anyone know if former FReeper CAL (Connie Hair, Clintonsaliar) is involved in the Keyes campaign this time, as she was in the Presidential campaign?
Seriously, though, I don't mind Keyes putting his particular spin on the reparations issue, like this, pre-remptively. Though I don't think even Baracka would seriously float reparations as a legitimate issue during or after the campaign. Keyes' bringing it up this way, and defining it and historically illuminating it in his own terms is actually a smart move. But if he's going to debate Baracka, he ought to do it in order to WIN, rather than handing Baracka "issues" like this that might actually make him look good to the voters.

[mhking]

He can spin it all he wants, all it is is more pandering. And it is just as wrong when conservatives do it as when liberals do it.

Period.

Black conservative ping

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[Junior_G]

Is Alan Keyes even considering the tremendous resentment of blacks that such a tax-relief plan would create? We don't want to see the Klan go mainstream, do we?

[MSSC6644]

I believe that Keyes is relying on our knowledge of slavery as an institution that stole the property of those who earned it (slaves). His concept is not that their descendants be GIVEN money by the government, but that they be allowed to keep all they earn with their toil. They are an exception because as slaves they were never allowed to have property, even though they worked in terrible conditions, were the foundation of a thriving economy and built the South with their sweat and blood.

If we allow two generations of slaves' descendants to opt out of paying taxes, then that debt of using Blacks, for at least two generations, in the most degrading of manners is paid. In the long run, all Americans can benefit from this idea as has been described elsewhere on this thread.

[John Lenin]

Well, it's one way to get blacks to like tax cuts ...

[x]

"Keyes is a man of ideas, and I expect he gets into discussions like this that are proper in their proper place, but that he would never vote for reparations. The problem with American politics is that people don't get into deep discussions."

Maybe, but for a long time it looked like a positive advantage for our country. Unlike the supposedly logical French, theoretical Germans, passionate Italians, or profound Russians, Anglo-Saxons tended to deal mostly with practical questions when they talked politics. That's not entirely true. The American founders were quite astute political theorists, as were the English thinkers who inspired them. But it is true enough, and may have had something to do with why, unlike other countries, the US and UK avoided the tyrannies and revolutions that ravaged so many other countries over the last two centuries.

An intellectual or philosopher can endlessly mull over the theoretical rights and wrongs of all sorts of questions, but politics is the art of the possible, and politicians can only get into trouble discussing purely theoretical questions.

[wai-ming]

Keyes proposed that for a generation or two, African-Americans of slave heritage should be exempted from federal taxes--federal because slavery "was an egregious failure on the part of the federal establishment."

Oh great. Now every African-American is going to refuse to pay taxes, citing Keyes, and saying we owe it to them.

[Torie]

The idea I have often put forward to address this challenge involves a traditionally Republican, conservative and market-oriented approach: removing the tax burden from the black community for a generation or two in order to encourage business ownership, create jobs and support the development of strong economic foundations for working families.

Wow. I'm floored. There is a little ambiguity here. The above suggests it is for all blacks (how does one become black?). Below, he says descendants of slaves. How does one prove one was a descendant? I guess blacks will be running in droves to the Mormon genealogy library if the latter.

I thought Keyes might get 35% of the vote. I'm going to lop 10% off that.

Hey, Kobe and fellow team members, Keyes is your man. He's worth tens of millions to you, if only it all comes true. Keep hope alive.

Poor Richard. I feel your pain.

[Antoninus]

The reparations thing is a non-issue. Those on "our side" who get worked up about it, don't like Keyes to begin with and are just looking for a reason to bash him.

my firm goal and ultimate objective is to replace the income tax, and thereby free all Americans from this insidious form of tax slavery.

If you disagree with this statement, you shouldn't be on FR...

[nonliberal]

Keyes is pandering. He knows that he has absolutely no chance in hell of winning so he panders to try to get the black vote.

[Texasforever]

I will trade their federal tax exemption for their right to vote. How is that?

[Mo1]

Wrong answer Keyes

[MazzyStar]

Affirmative Action was to put an end to this "Reparations" fiasco, once and for all. Now we're going to pretend that the last 40 years where Whites have been viciously discriminated by their own government never happened and start the whole "Reparations" scam all over again.

LOL!

[pollwatcher]

Keyes is one provocative and original thinker. Maybe he wouldn't fit into any parties plank, but I'm glad he's out there.

To continue this heresy about reparations, I personally didn't mind _some_ racial preference given to college scholarships (scholarship funding, NOT "normed" entrance scores). To me, this was all the "reparation" still needed. And it is how I finally understood what Goldwater meant when explaining the difference between a con and a lib: a conservative will throw a rope halfway out to a drowning man and encourage him to swim, while a Lib will throw it all the way out and then drop his end to go find someone else to help. They'd lower standards to put less qualified students into an environment where they will only sink. While "compassionate" cons would help remove a few practical roadblocks to those who show inititive. The "socialist paradise" of present-day S. Africa is another great example of embassy sit-in libs dropping the rope after they congratulated themselves and went off to cocktails.

[boycottliberalhollywood.com]

Reparations. Uh huh. On what basis? It must be financial!

Average income per-person in Africa:
$500.

Average income for Blacks in the USA, in 2002?
$30,032

So, will black folks be sending in an additional tax this year to pay in the difference? I don't think so.

Well, how about lost freedom? No doubt the way that black folk were brought to America is shameful. But what about the black folk who didn't get sold by Arab slave traders to the slave ships? Hm. Didn't they all live as Nubian princes and queens?

Well...didn't the Dutch go in there and enslave loads of them right there in Africa? Didn't the Brits go in there and do the same? Come to think of it, didn't just about every Eurpoean nation with a boat eventually make it down to Africa and carve out a slab of it and make it into a colony? The Boer war? What was all that Apartheid stuff about? Angola?Uganda? No, wait, you mean that Africa has been a festering den of misery since the slave days? Yep.

Well, maybe there ain't much to be paid back in reparations in the "loss of freedom" category, either.

Okay, so there is no demonstratable financial setback, and in fact, an amazing financial gain. Loss of freedom is imaginary. The only remaining claim is that of the actual forced slavery itself. And to that I say, you find any living person who was brought over as a slave, and pay 'em a million bucks each. However, don't waste our time with claims from the great-great-great-great-grandchildren of slaves. Sorry, I ain't got any sympathy. You go find out the stories from folks who came to America via Ellis Island, and ask 'em what sort of misery they left behind. Slavery, starvation, beatings, tyranny. Face it, if life at home wasn't hell, why would folks bother migrating to America in the first place?

In summary: Reparations? No.

[Aquinasfan]

Anyone catch the interview on Scarborough last night? Can you give me the highlights?

[outlawcam]

For the record, I disagree with the concept of affording special tax breaks based on the wrongs committed against one's ancestors--and that is where we are now. I feel no loyalty to all Roman ideals. That is a dubious authority -- especially since they also fed Christians to predators.

But I do support the Fair Tax, which makes the entire discussion moot, if enacted. Because he would pursue the Fair Tax and not the theoretical amnesty he described as a matter of historical context, I don't think it was a good idea to bring the subject up, politically.

That said, this isn't the first time I've disagreed with Keyes. I do not regret sending his campaign money on the grounds that he would do a good job as Senator, and most of the principles upon which he would vote are completely in line with my beliefs. I do not believe he would pursue this issue apart from the complete abolition of the IRS anyway, which benefits everybody.

[tuliptree76]

Clarifying ping