Posted on 08/17/2004 10:26:07 AM PDT by white trash redneck
A new poll commissioned by the National Jewish Democratic Council says American Jews will still vote overwhelmingly for the Democratic presidential candidate, John Kerry, despite US President George W. Bush's policies toward Israel, which have been widely praised by the Jewish community.
The poll, released on Monday, said American Jews preferred Kerry to Bush by a 75 to 22 percent margin. The survey of 817 likely Jewish voters was conducted by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research between July 26 and 28, and has a margin of error of +/- 3.5 percent.
Respondents said in 2000 they had voted for Vice President Al Gore over Bush by a similar margin of 76 to 21 percent.
Exit polls in 2000 showed Gore won 79 percent of the Jewish vote, and Bush 19 percent.
"The White House and (President Bush's political adviser) Karl Rove in particular have expended a lot of resources on this Jewish vote. Just like with Hispanics, they've come up with zero," said Ira Forman, executive director of NJDC.
Matthew Brooks, executive director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, a rival group, discounted the survey's results since the poll was taken during the Democratic Convention in Boston.
"I discount these findings because this poll was taken right in the middle of the Democratic Convention, right in the middle of a massive deluge of Kerry press coverage," Brooks said.
"We stand firmly committed to the notion that President Bush will do substantially better among Jewish voters than he did in 2000," Brooks added.
Another survey of American Jewish opinion in January found that 31 percent of Jews would support Bush when matched with Kerry, who was not yet the nominee at the time.
The new NJDC survey said 66 percent found Kerry to be better on the issue of Israel, while 34 percent found Bush to be. Only 23 percent of respondents felt the country was moving in the right direction, while 77 percent said it was on the wrong track. Twenty-five percent approved strongly or somewhat of the way Bush is handling his job as president, while 75 percent disapproved strongly or somewhat.
A new national Zogby survey released Monday showed Kerry ahead of Bush 47 to 43 percent. Without Independent Ralph Nader and other candidates the lead stretched to 50 to 43 percent.
It seems very disfunctional and self-destructive for any group of voters, be they Jewish, Black, etc etc, to give so much of their vote to any one particular party. It makes it so that one party will forget about that group and the other party will just take them for granted. I think the proof of that assertion is very evident where you have Jewish voters overwhelmingly voting Democrat despite the fact that they are for more anti-semetic in their views, critical of Israel, etc.
In all honesty, it is very sad and pathetic.
It's not anti-semetic... It's a perfectly valid observation.
For the life of me, I can't figure it out either. I'm the only "Jeffersonian Liberal" (i.e. conservative with libertarian leanings) in my family. The rest are raving liberals. The only thing that I can figure is that I'm the only one who never finished college...
Mark
No, in fact I don't agree with that. You (again) presume too much.
Is it your contention that most Jews who are in a position to effect policy and shape opinions are hostile to Christianity?
Why would you think this? I have contended nothing of the kind. Lacking hard data, I would not say that "most Jews" in such positions are hostile to Christianity. There undeniably are some, and that's as far as I'd go without further evidence.
If so, are they only a "subset" that have no effect on the larger Jewish population?
I don't think they have a significant effect, no. Such self-proclaimed spokesmen speak only for themselves, not for those they purport to represent. Abe Foxman doesn't represent Jews any more than Jesse Jackson represents blacks. I don't see people like Foxman playing a significant role in shaping Jewish opinion. Not among the Jews I talk to (both Democrat and Republican), at any rate.
If a Jewish Senator remarks that a nominee for Attorney General is unqualified because of his deeply held Christian beliefs, is that Senator hostile to Christianity?
That would seem to be a plausible conclusion.
You're right. I shouldn't automatically make that connection.
Actually, Jews have a long-standing tradition for the support of "social justice," which many have taken to mean socialism. Take a look at Israel: It's a democraticly elected socialist government. The "Kibutz" model, which was how Israel was founded (outside of the major metropolitan areas) were quite literally "collectives."
The thing I can't quite get over is the lack of common sense. While Jews have been at the forefront of working within governments to make life better for people, those governments (when they're socialist, or worse...) tend to eventually go after the Jews and prosecute or kill them. The concept of socialism is theortetically a good one, although it will never work, since it goes contrary to human nature, and eventually you need a tyranical government to force socialism on the populace.
Mark
Why would you think this?
If you are unclear why I'd ask the question, go back and read my post again and pay special attention to that which you chose to snip out of your reply to it.
Easy, they live in America, only witnessed the WTC via media coverage and never had to take a bus let alone a bus that might have a homicide bomber on board......
Life is wonderful in the United States.......Too bad most of Americans, especially the American Jews, hit the "snooze" button after our last wake-up-call because I suspect room service is going to make an unannounced visit in the next couple months.......
Tell you what. I'll bother taking the time to do that, after you provide your evidence that "most Jews wish doom upon Christianity".
imagine Jews with their history backing the same candidate as Arabs and Muslims who essentially want to commit genocide against the Jews everywhere...
imagine Jews along side the AlQueda.....
what idiots and what fools...
now we can see why the Jews were murdered in Europe...because they were lead to the slaughter by this kind of attitude...
my brother talked with a Holocaust survivor and he had a lot of bitterness towards many groups, but his most vicious words he saved for the Jews or America...who sat on their hands while Polish and German Jews were gased.....
objectively, the Jews of America are all about money, period, with an occassional indignation for some percieved injustice, just so they can claim some civil right infringement.....
they are not about ethnic pride or religious devotion....
They say they care about Israel, but their "Democrat Party" label trumps EVERYTHING....especially Common Sense!!
Statistics belie your claims.
Every ethnic Catholic group, Italian, Irish, Polish, etc. got caught in the big unionized Democratic machines and only recently have been breaking the grip.
What a despicable comment.
Once again, I suggest you actually get to know some Jews before you go spouting off your opinions and declaring them facts.
If someone says that Christians try to convert them I say PHOOEY....how weak!! Ihave been accosted many, many many times by Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses, Baptists at times to convert from Catholicism, and it wouldn't cross my mind to hold it agianst these people.
I should poll the Catholic Republicans groups and see the results there. It'll be a biased result like this. That said, I suspect 65-35 for Kerry.
Which idiot said that?!?!
You are delusional. How's that John Birch Society working out for ya? See any Black Helicoptors lately? Oh shit...gotta run....I am getting in a new transmission from the IZC now! life has been swell since I was promoted to Gold Bar Accountant!
It is a vile comment indeed.
It seems to me that many more secularized, culturally uprooted Jews care more about being successful than being Jewish - this is not equivalent to being "about" money.
We see the same phenomenon among upper-class secularized Christians as well, of course.
There is a Jews for Kerry website.
http://firedance.com/v-web/portal/cms/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=64
It has some interesting data on the Jewish vote and it's historical leftward bias essentially since the time of the Ashkhenazim Jewish immigration apex in the early 1900s.
Israel has been the crucible since Truman and on several occasions has shifted a bit away from the left (Carter and McGovern) and the right (W the elder 92). But, the Jewish vote is always majority Dem and usually almost as high a percentage as the black vote.
There is another thread going here about the 5 largest Dem 527 contributors and all are JINOs.
The Jewish vote (their turnout is very high) is pivotal in some states like NY, FL, PA, IL and CA...5-6% as a Dem bloc essentially does matter.
Couple the big money activism and voting patterns with large media presence and liberal Jews are a force to pander to and reckon with....it's simple politics and Kerry and W know this.
Why most Jews vote self destructively is a topic for volumes of work and is beyond my skills. I'd venture a bit of kneejerk distaste for Christian interpretation of morality, some Stockholm Syndrome, Tikkun Olam and Messianic Humanism which has replaced the religion many Jews have rejected. It is not by chance that more religious Jews tend to be more conservative.
Anyhow....having known so many Jews in my life and most being Red Diaper Babies, this is a subject that has always fascinated me.
Now...I can tell anybody in one paragraph why my tribe...."white, southern christian males" tend to vote for the most socially conservative party....if anybody cares...lol
My ancestors were some of those same Irish machine politicians(Detroit). If I can vote for the GOP, so can they.
It's not the Al Smith party anymore. Those same Brahmin types are now mostly democraps.
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