Skip to comments.Q and A- F-102, Vietnam & George W. Bush
Posted on 08/05/2004 8:56:04 PM PDT by happydogdesignEdited on 05/30/2006 11:18:45 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
"It really bothers me that a coward like George W. Bush spent the Vietnam War training to fly old and useless planes in Texas while John Kerry was heroically risking his life in combat and got three purple hearts!"
We normally shy away from the world of politics, but we get variations of this kind of question regularly and feel it necessary to clarify some information. We'll do our best to avoid bringing our own political biases into this article. At the very least, we'll attempt to remain as neutral and objective as Michael Moore does in his ironically dubbed "documentary" Fahrenheit 9/11.
(Excerpt) Read more at aerospaceweb.org ...
Does anybody know how many members FR has?
Besides you? Just me. Boy is it hard to type all this stuff in and keep it straight....
I've been posting this for awhile
George W Bush's military record vs John Kerry's military record
Aerospaceweb.org was started in 2000 to provide information regarding a wide range
of aerospace-related fields, including aircraft design, spacecraft design, aerodynamics,
and aerospace history.
...Nevertheless, we have established that the F-102 was serving in combat in Vietnam at the time Bush
enlisted to become an F-102 pilot. In fact, pilots from the 147th FIG of the Texas ANG were
routinely rotated to Vietnam for combat duty under a program called "Palace Alert" from 1968 to 1970.
Palace Alert was an Air Force program that sent qualified F-102 pilots from the ANG to bases in Europe
or southeast Asia for periods of three to six months for frontline duty.
Fred Bradley, a friend of Bush's who was also serving in the Texas ANG, reported that he and Bush
inquired about participating in the Palace Alert program. However, the two were told by a superior,
MAJ Maurice Udell, that they were not yet qualified since they were still in training
and did not have the 500 hours of flight experience required. Furthermore, ANG veteran
COL William Campenni, who was a fellow pilot in the 111th FIS at the time,
told the Washington Times that Palace Alert was winding down and not accepting new applicants....
The point of this discussion is that the military record of George W. Bush deserves a fair treatment.
Bush has been criticized for avoiding service in Vietnam, though the evidence proves that
the Texas Air National Guard and its F-102 pilots where serving in Vietnam while Bush was in training.
Bush has been criticized for using his family influence to obtain his assignment,
but the evidence shows that he successfully completed every aspect of the more than
two years of training required of him.
Bush has been criticized for pursuing a safe and plush position as a fighter pilot,
but the evidence indicates the F-102 was a demanding aircraft whose pilots regularly risked their lives.
Bush has also been criticized for deserting the Guard before his enlistment was complete,
but the evidence shows he was honorably discharged eight months early because his position
was being phased out...
While it is not our goal to compare and contrast the records of the candidates on this subject,
the fact that the questioner cites John Kerry's military service makes us feel it necessary to comment.
It is interesting to note that there are just as many, if not more,
irregularities in Kerry's military record as there are in Bush's.
Kerry can certainly be praised for some of the actions he performed while in the line of duty,
but his record does contain some troubling portions as well.
Not the least of these is his involvement in the controversial group
Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) while he was still an active-duty member of the US Navy.
Kerry's testimony before Congress as VVAW spokesman in 1971,
during which he accused soldiers serving in Vietnam of being war criminals,
was found to be based on largely falsifed information as documented by Wikipedia.
The Boston Globe has also reported on troubling accusations regarding the circumstances
surrounding Kerry's medals, particularly his first two purple hearts awarded for
minor injuries that may even have been self-inflicted.
John Kerry's record
DD 214 shows 17 Feb 72 terminal date of Reserve Obligation for John Kerry
Kerry's anti war activities were doing this period!
What is Senator John Kerry's relationship to VVAW?
Since Vietnam Veterans Against the War's inception in 1967, tens of thousands of vets, GIs and supporters have participated in and supported the actions of VVAW. One of those members in the early 1970s was John Kerry. Kerry was appointed to the VVAW Executive Committee to assist in preparing Dewey Canyon III, VVAW's limited incursion into the land of Congress in 1971 (Nicosia, 98-99). Kerry made his greatest contribution to the anti-war movement and to VVAW in his speech to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on April 23, 1971 (Brinkley, 371-373: Hunt, 109-110; Nicosia, 136-138; Wells, 495).
Content of the speech is found at:
By 1972, John Kerry had moved on from VVAW (Brinkley, 406: Hunt, 127-128; Nicosia, 211).
John Kerry's service in Vietnam lasted 4 months and 12 days, beginning in November 1968 when he reported to Cam Rahn Bay for a month of training. His abbreviated combat tour ended shortly after he requested a transfer out of Vietnam on March 17, 1969, citing Navy instruction 1300.39 permitting personnel with three Purple Hearts to request reassignment. So far as we are able to determine, Kerry was the only Swift sailor ever to leave Vietnam without completing the standard one-year tour of duty, other than those who were seriously wounded or killed.
The instruction, titled 1300.39, says that a Naval officer who requires hospitalization on two separate occasions, or who receives three wounds "regardless of the nature of the wounds," can ask a superior officer to request a reassignment. The instruction makes clear the reassignment is not automatic.
It says that the reassignment "will be determined after consideration of his physical classification for duty and on an individual basis." Because Kerry's wounds were not considered serious, his reassignment appears to have been made on an individual basis. Moreover, the instruction makes clear that Kerry could have asked that any reassignment be waived.
The bottom line is that Kerry could have remained but he chose to seek an early transfer. He met with Horne, who agreed to forward the request, which Horne said probably ensured final approval. The Navy could not say how many other officers or sailors got a similar early release from combat, but it was unusual for anyone to have three Purple Hearts.
"So far as we are able to determine, Kerry was the only Swift sailor
ever to leave Vietnam without completing the standard one-year tour of duty,
other than those who were seriously wounded or killed."
Ask the Admin Moderator or Jim Robinson.
great stuff. ping for later
Thanks for posting it.
One thing that must be considered is that it's John Kerry who is running on his service in the Military, all 4 1/2 Months of it
according to the home page over 100,000 registered users, probably even more lurkers, could be over 200,000 reading this
(scroll down til you see this)
Who reads FR?
Over 100,000 people have registered for posting privileges on Free Republic during the last six years and our forum is read daily by tens of thousands of concerned citizens and patriots from all around the country and the world. Oh, we're big stuff all right
(Traffic Rank on Alexa.com).
Of course the Guard uses village idiots to train as fighter jet pilots. /sarcasm>
"Over 100,000 people have registered for posting privileges on Free Republic"
i'm surprised there arent more! What's the point of being a conservative if you don't get to post on(and get your news from) FR? :)
Finally an article that lays all on the line that you can read and understand...and compare.
Any numbskull can drive a boat.....
Does anyone know who the heck this "Jennifer Braun" is and whether she is someone whose opnion counts?
Not that she is right or wrong, but whether or not she has a metaphorical platfom and megaphone.
I've never heard of her.
My first thought was that the Hollywood 'rats should be forced to read this. John Cusak (sp?), Aflac Ben and the rest just don't get the fact that
IDIOTS don't get to fly fighter jets. combat or otherwise.
After this election, if I ever hear the words "hero" or "divided country" again, I'll go postal.
Hey, I got the email; that's good stuff!
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