F102 destroyed by the NVA at Da Nang
Does anybody know how many members FR has?
I've been posting this for awhile
George W Bush's military record vs John Kerry's military record
Aerospaceweb.org was started in 2000 to provide information regarding a wide range
of aerospace-related fields, including aircraft design, spacecraft design, aerodynamics,
and aerospace history.
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml
...Nevertheless, we have established that the F-102 was serving in combat in Vietnam at the time Bush
enlisted to become an F-102 pilot. In fact, pilots from the 147th FIG of the Texas ANG were
routinely rotated to Vietnam for combat duty under a program called "Palace Alert" from 1968 to 1970.
Palace Alert was an Air Force program that sent qualified F-102 pilots from the ANG to bases in Europe
or southeast Asia for periods of three to six months for frontline duty.
Fred Bradley, a friend of Bush's who was also serving in the Texas ANG, reported that he and Bush
inquired about participating in the Palace Alert program. However, the two were told by a superior,
MAJ Maurice Udell, that they were not yet qualified since they were still in training
and did not have the 500 hours of flight experience required. Furthermore, ANG veteran
COL William Campenni, who was a fellow pilot in the 111th FIS at the time,
told the Washington Times that Palace Alert was winding down and not accepting new applicants....
...
The point of this discussion is that the military record of George W. Bush deserves a fair treatment.
Bush has been criticized for avoiding service in Vietnam, though the evidence proves that
the Texas Air National Guard and its F-102 pilots where serving in Vietnam while Bush was in training.
Bush has been criticized for using his family influence to obtain his assignment,
but the evidence shows that he successfully completed every aspect of the more than
two years of training required of him.
Bush has been criticized for pursuing a safe and plush position as a fighter pilot,
but the evidence indicates the F-102 was a demanding aircraft whose pilots regularly risked their lives.
Bush has also been criticized for deserting the Guard before his enlistment was complete,
but the evidence shows he was honorably discharged eight months early because his position
was being phased out...
...
While it is not our goal to compare and contrast the records of the candidates on this subject,
the fact that the questioner cites John Kerry's military service makes us feel it necessary to comment.
It is interesting to note that there are just as many, if not more,
irregularities in Kerry's military record as there are in Bush's.
Kerry can certainly be praised for some of the actions he performed while in the line of duty,
but his record does contain some troubling portions as well.
Not the least of these is his involvement in the controversial group
Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) while he was still an active-duty member of the US Navy.
Kerry's testimony before Congress as VVAW spokesman in 1971,
during which he accused soldiers serving in Vietnam of being war criminals,
was found to be based on largely falsifed information as documented by Wikipedia.
The Boston Globe has also reported on troubling accusations regarding the circumstances
surrounding Kerry's medals, particularly his first two purple hearts awarded for
minor injuries that may even have been self-inflicted.
John Kerry's record
http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com/vietnam.htm
DD 214 shows 17 Feb 72 terminal date of Reserve Obligation for John Kerry
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf
Kerry's anti war activities were doing this period!
What is Senator John Kerry's relationship to VVAW?
http://www.vvaw.org/faq/#4
Since Vietnam Veterans Against the War's inception in 1967, tens of thousands of vets, GIs and supporters have participated in and supported the actions of VVAW. One of those members in the early 1970s was John Kerry. Kerry was appointed to the VVAW Executive Committee to assist in preparing Dewey Canyon III, VVAW's limited incursion into the land of Congress in 1971 (Nicosia, 98-99). Kerry made his greatest contribution to the anti-war movement and to VVAW in his speech to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on April 23, 1971 (Brinkley, 371-373: Hunt, 109-110; Nicosia, 136-138; Wells, 495).
Content of the speech is found at:
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Manifestos/VVAW_Kerry_Senate.html.
By 1972, John Kerry had moved on from VVAW (Brinkley, 406: Hunt, 127-128; Nicosia, 211).
John Kerry's service in Vietnam lasted 4 months and 12 days, beginning in November 1968 when he reported to Cam Rahn Bay for a month of training. His abbreviated combat tour ended shortly after he requested a transfer out of Vietnam on March 17, 1969, citing Navy instruction 1300.39 permitting personnel with three Purple Hearts to request reassignment. So far as we are able to determine, Kerry was the only Swift sailor ever to leave Vietnam without completing the standard one-year tour of duty, other than those who were seriously wounded or killed.
The instruction, titled 1300.39, says that a Naval officer who requires hospitalization on two separate occasions, or who receives three wounds "regardless of the nature of the wounds," can ask a superior officer to request a reassignment. The instruction makes clear the reassignment is not automatic.
It says that the reassignment "will be determined after consideration of his physical classification for duty and on an individual basis." Because Kerry's wounds were not considered serious, his reassignment appears to have been made on an individual basis. Moreover, the instruction makes clear that Kerry could have asked that any reassignment be waived.
The bottom line is that Kerry could have remained but he chose to seek an early transfer. He met with Horne, who agreed to forward the request, which Horne said probably ensured final approval. The Navy could not say how many other officers or sailors got a similar early release from combat, but it was unusual for anyone to have three Purple Hearts.
http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php?topic=KerryinVietnam
"So far as we are able to determine, Kerry was the only Swift sailor
ever to leave Vietnam without completing the standard one-year tour of duty,
other than those who were seriously wounded or killed."
great stuff. ping for later
Thanks for posting it.
One thing that must be considered is that it's John Kerry who is running on his service in the Military, all 4 1/2 Months of it
Of course the Guard uses village idiots to train as fighter jet pilots. /sarcasm>
Finally an article that lays all on the line that you can read and understand...and compare.
Any numbskull can drive a boat.....
Does anyone know who the heck this "Jennifer Braun" is and whether she is someone whose opnion counts?
Not that she is right or wrong, but whether or not she has a metaphorical platfom and megaphone.
I've never heard of her.
My first thought was that the Hollywood 'rats should be forced to read this. John Cusak (sp?), Aflac Ben and the rest just don't get the fact that
IDIOTS don't get to fly fighter jets. combat or otherwise.
It is really striking how ignorant the lying Clintonslime such as McAwful are on this topic. Not only do they have no experience in the military, they can't even accurately digest information about the military, including about weapons systems.
Question for Jennifer Braun:
Which aircraft are you qualified to fly and with which unit are/were you attached? Since you seem to consider yourself completely qualified to critique the F-102 ("useless aircraft"), one can only surmise that you do so from a "experienced" point of view.
Or, are you a just a "spitter"?
This whole issue has been full of hypocrisy. Jimmy Carter pardoned draft dodgers and deserters. When Dan Quayle ran for Vice President, Liberals complained that he was in the National Guard. Clinton joined ROTC to avoid the draft, and then backed out of it when he wasn't drafted. But hey, time to move on, the liberals said. George Bush flew a dangerous plane with a real world mission, and Liberals say that wasn't enough. Most of these Liberals, however, have never worn a uniform unless it's on halloween. Yet they're feigning outrage. Pure partisan politics is what they're up to.
It never discusses the three major combat commands in the 1970's USAF structure, SAC, TAC and ADC.
The ADC (Air Defense Command) was based solely in North America, and Iceland but was mostly CONUS and was exclusively given the mission of identifying, intercepting and destroying any enemy airborne intruder. By it's very structure, the USAF had committed a large resource of aircraft (and pilots) to stateside unique assignments. The ADC bases were typically located on the country's borders and coastlines.
As the Vietnam war created a demand for pilots, active duty pilots were steered towards TAC (Tactical Air Comand) and SAC (Strategic Air Command). The ADC was backfilled with Air Guard and Reserve units and was the first major USAF combat command to integrate active and Reserve/Guard units under a single command structure.
The Second omission was the presumption that a graduate of pilot training had his choice or aircraft. UPT (Undergraduate Pilot Training) officers were allowed to fill out assignment preference sheets, most selected fighters. But, the assignments were always subject to the needs of the service. The only control a pilot had was, as a reservist, placing his preference for a reserve base location. This steered the assignment section as to which type of aircraft specific follow-on training the graduate received. If you've ever gone through this process, you know why they call 'em dream sheets.
F102 destroyed by the NVA at Da Nang
A few old and "useless" planes used in Viet Nam with a great deal of success.
Bump....
Bump for after a good night's sleep.
bump
"good read" ping
1. He is of above average intelligence
2. He can think fast
3. He's got two mighty big brass ones.
People who think Dubya is stupid are fools. The truth is that a person needs an IQ well above average to fly an F-102. An average dimwit could no more be a figher jock than a one-legged man could ride a unicycle.