Ready to rumble? Village Voice Author, Rick Perlstein, Here to Debate the Freeper Horde

08/03/2004 | Rick Perlstein

[dead]

Opening Statement

Dear FRiends:

I once suffered two great frustrations in being a freelance political writer. First, the loneliness: you put an article out there, and you might as well have thrown it down a black hole for all the response you get. Second, the ghettoization: when you do get response, it would be from folks you agree with. Not fun for folks like me who reliish--no, crave and need--political argument.

Then came the Internet, the blogs--and: problem solved.

I have especially enjoyed having my articles in the Village Voice posted on Free Republic by "dead," and arguing about them here. The only frustration is that I never have enough time--and sometimes no time--to respond as the threads are going on. That is why I arranged for an entire afternoon--this afternoon--to argue on Free Republic. Check out my articles and have at me.

A little background: I am a proud leftist who specializes in writing about conservatives. I have always admired conservatives for their political idealism, acumen, stalwartness, and devotion. I have also admired some of their ideas--especially the commitment to distrusting grand social schemes, and the deep sense of the inherent flaws in human nature. (To my mind the best minds in the liberal tradition have encompassed these ideals, while still maintaining that robust social reform is still possible and desirable. My favorite example is the Protestant theologian Reinhold Niebuhr, author of the Serenity Prayer and a great liberal Democrat.)

Lately, however, I've become mad at the right, and have written about it with an anger not been present in my previous writings. It began with the ascension of George Bush, when I detected many conservatives beginning to care more about power than principles. The right began to seem less interesting to me--more whiny, more shallow--and, what's more, in what I saw as an uncritical devotion to President Bush, often in retreat from its best insights about human nature.

I made my strongest such claim in a Village Voice article two weeks ago in which I, after much thought, chose to say conservatism was "verging on becoming an un-American creed" for the widespread way conservatives are ignoring the lessons of James Madison's great insights in Federalist 51 that in America we are supposed to place our ultimate trust in laws, not men.

Finally, in what I see as the errors of the Iraq campaign, I recognize the worst aspects of arrogant left-wing utopianism: the idea that you can remake a whole society and region through sheer force of will. I think Iraq is a tragic disaster (though for the time being the country is probably better off than it was when Saddam was around--but only, I fear, for the time being).

I am also, by the way, a pretty strong critic of my own side, as can be seen in my latest Village Voice piece.

So: I'm yours for the day--until 7:10 pm CST, when I'm off to compete in my weekly trivia contest at the University of Chicago Pub. Until then: Are you ready to rumble?

Respectfully,
Rick Perlstein

[finnman69]

See this graph showing INCREASES to the VA budget:

http://www.house.gov/budget/fy05fd032504chart32.pdf

[Gone GF]

"Who gives a shiite what you think ego bucko?"

How very civil of you. You know you just posted that to a Freeper, not to Perlstein? No, I guess you don't.

[Perlstein]

made my strongest such claim in a Village Voice article two weeks ago in which I, after much thought, chose to say conservatism was "verging on becoming an un-American creed" for the widespread way conservatives are ignoring the lessons of James Madison's great insights in Federalist 51 that in America we are supposed to place our ultimate trust in laws, not men.

Mr Perstein:

Two part question:


1. What examples can you site of conservatives doing what you claim above?
2. Is it your claim that liberals do not engage in this behavior?
Thank you...
----
1. Did you read the article? Read "Church of Bush" and you'll find my cites.
2. There is a specific warning in Fed 51: that charismatic leaders will seek to change the institutions of government to favor themselves. Yes, I think conservatives do this more egregiously. Tip O'Neill once kept a congressional vote open for 15 minutes to twist arms, and that was not kosher. By contrast, Tom DeLay and Hastert kept the medicare vote open for THREE HOURS, and threatened a congressman that they would destroy his son's congressional campaign if he did not vote that way. Yes, politics is a tough game. But Republicans have recently been stretching their indecency beyond bounds.

RP

[Conservomax]

Dear Sir,

As a independent, I am not 100% enamored by our current president, however, i find myself defending him at great lengths against the rabid, often blind, often (though not always) misinformed hatred of almost anyone slightly left of center, which has arisen over the past four years against Mr. Bush.

The democratic party, long touted as one of ideas, has become a fractured guild of special interest groups and one issue voters who are united only by their disdain for the current administration.

After waging a culture war for the past 50 years, it seems that the left has hit a brick wall. The thing which turns many American off to liberalism is the idea that the left's answers are the inherently "right" answers while the opposing view is fundamentally wrong. The fact that this equivocation exists is the great irony given that an underlying and, perhaps to most liberals, an unconscious goal of the left is to abolish the notion of there being a right and wrong answer to any social dilemma.

The fact (and in some cases, the perception) that our current president stands in direct contrast to many of the pet causes of the left: red herring environmental causes, gay marriage, abortion "rights", and redistribution of wealth (to name a few) is his greatest flaw. Thus, using the rational of the left, he and his followers are either
stupid evil or both.

The one fine point I will respond to you on is veteran's benefits.

Since bush as taken office, the VA budget has increased by 16 billion a year to 64b. Bush has also increased such allowances as the "Family Separation Allowance" and "Imminent Danger Pay" for the soldiers currently serving for the first time since before Clinton's Administration.

That's a fact, you can look it up. If you want to send me info on the cutting of benefits by Bush, that is not from Kucinich's website feel free, I would love to see it as long as it doesn't refer to the 160,000 soldiers who were never receiving VA benefits, and who 'lost their benefits'. This is a twisted hyperbole that was started when the VA cut off health care benefits to some 160,000 vets who were very well off and had no existing medical conditions - essentially people who weren't receiving VA benefits in the first place and who never will receive them. Howard Dean took this fact and twisted it into a platform plank. Since this happened, the story has taken off, however, I see very little evidence being presented about the "facts" of Bush's cutting veterans' benefits when the issue is raised. Predictably, all I hear is sound bites.

'http://www.techcentralstation.com/060903C.html'

'http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourcesContent/0,13964,39857-1,00.html'

'http://www.cdharris.net/archives/2003_05.html#002302'

[cyncooper]

From the article you linked:

Of course, two years after Bush made his pledge, only 2 percent of the AIDS money has been distributed (in any event, it will mainly go to drug companies).

Why is money going to "drug companies" a bad thing, as you imply with your phrasing? Would it be so the drugs they manufacture can then be produced in order to help those suffering from AIDs? What is wrong with that? How do you propose the "drug companies" research and produce medicines if not with funding?

And appearing earnest in the presence of African Americans has been a documented Bush strategy for wooing moderate voters since the beginning.

As noted earlier, your perception meter is way off kilter. President Bush does not "appear" as anything but himself. What you are observing that is so foreign to your eyes is a man who respects people. Hard as that is for you to believe, all evidence points that way.

[jwalsh07]

I am sure you have heard the phrase "Never Again" used repeatedly in addressing the holocaust perpetrated on Jews in Europe by Nazi Germany.

My question for you is, does the phrase "never again" only apply to the Jewish folk or should it also apply to Cambodians, Laotians, Rwandans, Kosovites, Shia and Kurds alike?

Should America not act when and where it can to prevent genocide or is the moral high ground occupies by the bearded guy on the corner holding the sign that says "War Never Solves Anything"?

I say this because I am an American conservative informed by my religious faith. I understand that America can not do everything but when our interests are coincident with the removal of genocidal lunatics, to do nothing is not only immoral but stupid.

The Middle East is a tough nut. It wasn't so tough when Jimmy Carter midwifed jihadism into existence. It would be much tougher, if we had not lanced the boil and given 50 million souls a chance at the brass ring of freedom,20 years hence.

I would be happy to argue the practical causes of deposing the Ba'athists if you'd prefer to avoid arguing the case for genocidal lunatics though. :-}

[lugsoul]

Here's your softball...

Other than "because they have nukes and we can't do anything about it," can you think of any reason why we put up with Pakistan's long-running and continuing support for terrortist who want to kill us?

[AppyPappy]

Isn't there a bar open near you somewhere? Time's a wastin'

Order me a black and tan.

[SunnySide]

NO TO Perl-Stain -- IS A NO TO GLOBAL MISOGYNY

[Perlstein]

Quick vote: who thinks I should have to respond to the guy who holds me personally responsible for Pol Pot and Janet Reno's raid in Waco? I'm willing if you think I should.

Rick

[veronica]

He's the ultimate empty suit now. He moved to the left out of fear of Howard Dean. Now he tries to reclaim the center, but the only way he can is to deep-six his Senate record.

John Kerry - there is no there, there!

[Cogadh na Sith]

Which is updated daily, mostly with Pentagon statistics. I invite everyone to bookmark it. The picture it shows, I submit, is not pretty.

OK, where are the pre-war statistics on murders, rapes, torture, gallons of anthrax created, &c...?

Those statistics show nothing other than war is bad and peace is better.

Gee Whiz man! Those statistics show that war is absolute chaos and Iraq is starting to stabilize!

How you can see anything different is symptomatic of the extraordinary ill-will you bear America and her current administration.

[eureka!]

Thanks for the ping, dead. Will check out the debate later...

[onyx]

Thanks for the ping Meek,
but I am NOT going to waste
my precious time reading left
wing hatred from this Perlstein moron.

[Gone GF]

"Rick, the fact of the matter is Iraq is a breathtaking and brilliant success that will be studied for years and hailed well into the future. You need more information from better sourcing in order to make informed opinions."

I'm not Rick, but are you lending out your crystal ball? Seriously, exactlty how do you know this for a fact? What are your sources for this amazing prediction of the future?

Mind you, I'm not saying you're wrong, but dang I wish I could time travel, too.

[hispanarepublicana]

Why don't you answer my 2 above instead......Libs who grew up cushy like you never want to deal with conservatives who made it on their own like me.

[Onelifetogive]

paleocon critics of Bush have not been made to feel welcome here.

They may not be the majority here, but they ARE HERE. I regularly see two factions:

1) Bush (and most of the GOP Congress) are better than Kerry (and the Dims) We must accept them.
2) Bush (and the GOP Congress) are not faithful enough to Conservative principles. We need to send them a message.

Both have a point. We don't want to go backward (Kerry), but we have to do something to move forward (Constitution Party?)

[alisasny]

It's comical how the left argues spending decreases....they truly want the populace to believe that everyone is starving and drinking arsenic....

The bottom line is the fed govt. has never decreased spending on anything period

[WillVoteForFood]

A few questions.

1. How would you define the term "tolerance"? I am of the opinion that today's liberal is all too willing to tolerate various alternative lifestyles, but that tolerance ends when the subject of evangelical Christianity is presented to them.

2. Christians are criticized roundly for not being "inclusive", particularly with regard to the gay agenda. Yet the Bible is clear on homosexual behavior, regardless of how various liberal theologians have tried to reinvent Scripture. Are Christians required to simply turn a blind eye to Scripture in order to perceived as inclusive, and if that is the case, why is this viewpoint not seen as intolerant?

3. I find today's liberal to be patronizing when it comes to minorities (I am a Texas born American of hispanic origin). In that patronizing attitude, I find a racism that is far more insidious than the racism that conservatives are accused of. Tell me why I am wrong about racism among liberals that I find to be obvious.

4. John Kerry will never answer this question, but perhaps you will. Who would you define as the "rich" in this country?

5. Liberals, in speaking of higher taxes to pay for social programs, talk of an obligation people have to give back for the "greater good". Hillary Clinton herself spoke of this very recently. Bill Clinton several years ago spoke of this when talking about tax cuts, his quote being something to the effect of "we could give you back the surplus in the form of a tax cut and hope you do the right thing with it". Do you believe the government to be the best instrument for "giving back" to society and why do you believe this? Why do liberals assume that people will do the wrong thing with their money if they are allowed to keep their earnings through tax cuts?

6. Why are minority liberals not called on the carpet for clearly racist statements they make in public?

7. Liberals tend to go nuts when Christians pray in public or do anything on public grounds that would be perceived as religious, yet muslims are given a pass in this regard. Why does this occur?

All for now. Thanks.

[Indy Pendance]

Instead of cutting and pasting previous works, why not debate with your original thoughts?