Read GOP lips: No more IRS -- Hastert hints of Bush's secret plan to end income tax

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Tuesday, August 3, 2004

[Critter]

No, I was referring to the 15% flat tax.

I think we need to go back to the days where the feds lived on tarrifs and duties, and the states picked up the slack. Short of that, the NRST is the next best thing.

[NJ_gent]

"States tax necessities(?) like booze and cigarettes now"

Alcohol and tabacco are not required to live. On the contrary, they often contribute to an early death. That differs from foods or medications. :-)

[Your Nightmare]

Proposed by whom? Seems awfully high.

See #14. There is already a bill in Congress.

[lewislynn]

"Just keep re-electing us, and see if we remember schemes like this after November. Spin the wheel, place your bets. Ooooops, you lose again!"

Herman Cain ran for the senate on the "fairtax" platform and lost just a few weeks ago....

[rintense]

I would SO support this as well! Let's hope this catches on before the election. It could really help GWB.

[rintense]

Yeppers. That's like saying, we can tax the rich because they have more money. *shakes head*

[lewislynn]

What are the prospects for a filibuster-proof Senate?

With 100 Republican Senators?....No chance.

[EternalVigilance]

The proposed (revenue neutral) rate is 30%.

For the thousandth time:

The rate, no matter how you compute or describe it, is not a commentary on the form of taxation. When you're talking revenue neutral, the rate is a commentary on total government spending.

Your arguments about the rate are nonsequiters.

They mean nothing to this half of the debate...the portion that must be dealt with first.

[Texas Federalist]

I like the idea in theory. But there is no way a 30% sales tax could ever work. Any sales tax over 10% has traditionally led to negative marginal revenue as people try to avoid the tax. (I think that Hamilton wrote about this phenomenon as well.)

[lucysmom]

I think we need to go back to the days where the feds lived on tarrifs and duties, and the states picked up the slack.

How does that work in the context of free trade?

[dsc]

"Alcohol and tabacco are not required to live."

Yah, but without them, why bother?

[agincourt1415]

Nobody knows what rate will be optimum, but 5% NRST would be where to start, not at 15%, or 23%.

[Your Nightmare]

You also have state sales taxes on top of that. Where I live the total sales tax would be 38.12%.

BTW, you probably are going to here a lot of people saying the rate is really 23%. Just know this, if you buy an item with a sticker price of $100, you would pay an additional $29.87 is federal sales taxes (in addition to state sales taxes).

[dsc]

"you would pay an additional $29.87"

Might be a good thing. It would keep taxes right up in people's faces, instead of hidden away in payroll deductions.

[Your Nightmare]

Is it real or is it an election year scheme to win votes?

It is interesting that they've had 4 years with control of the White House and Congress and are waiting till 3 months before they are in danger of losing control of both before they start to push this issue. If they were really behind this, shouldn't they have started a couple of years ago?

Anyway, I'm glad they are talking about having some serious discussions about the issue.

[kevkrom]

With a national sales tax, they would be if sold in a second-hand store.

Not so, under Linder's NRST proposal (HR 25) -- previously taxed items would not be taxed again on resale.

[lewislynn]

Proposed by whom? Seems awfully high.

Congressman Linder's "fairtax" plan (hr25).

[lewislynn]

Still, if people started paying 30% at the register instead of having it withheld, it might be more obvious how much govt is taking.

And then what?...Stop living a normal life?

[lewislynn]

Your arguments about the rate are [sic]nonsequiters.

They mean nothing to this half of the debate...the portion that must be dealt with first.

If that's true, what's your problem with disclosing it?

In other words, pass a sales tax plan at any cost. If you don't like the rate after it becomes law...tough shit?

[lewislynn]

I like the idea in theory. But there is no way a 30% sales tax could ever work

Well that's what the proposal is.

They'll try and tell you it's only 23% but that's 23% "of the gross payment" including itself.

$100.00 plus 30% federal sales tax= $130.00

The $30.00 tax is 23% of $130.00 (gross payment).

BTW. The tax IS "of the gross payment" which means it will tax other taxes, fees, excises and anything else included in a "gross payment".

It gets worse and more complicated.