Posted on 08/02/2004 5:34:00 PM PDT by Willie Green
Well, yes. I've lived equivalent places (southern IL.) Just because people are morons doesn't mean you totally write off their votes. Most people in the US are *not* smart, are *not* going to be "professionals." Outside of genetic surgery, they aren't going to be. The GOP look the other way while we allow them to devolve into a meth using-self-destructing rural and small town underclass, or the GOP can actually get a bit more populist.
I don't know s**t cuz I dint like school.
I can't get a job and it's Bush's fault.
The big bad war came and got me, and it's Bush's fault!
Grateful Dead teddy bear tattoo? You just can't make up stuff this weird. The DNC is working overtime?
Today is no different, except that with global trade we've managed to enjoy a high standard of living by hiding the working-class misery out of sight in places like Mexico, China, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.
Exactly. Because by that time, the coal he was mining wasn't just being used to manufacture steel for autos -- it was used to make steel for a whole bunch of things he couldn't afford (tanks, airplanes, warships, etc.).
Today, China and India have severe trade restrictions to protect their domestic industry.
The free traitors feed and nourish the Chinese Dragon as they strangle and starve the American Eagle. Ultimately, free traitors will be ashamed to ever admit their despicable views, even to themselves. They will hide their loathsome treason, but the stain upon their character can never be fully expunged.
Does this mean we're talking Pennsylvania?
I love posters whose minds are so narrow that they can't remember that there is a universe beyond themselves.
Mentioning a state when posting would be nice.
It's remarkable that the finest minds in the world can't get beyond those two choices: unbridled pollution or the job-killing kind that returns 2 cents on the dollar worth of benefits.
Good luck to them.
And how exactly will dumbass turn the picture around in Lewiston if he wins? All he's told us so far is that he hates Bush and was in Viet Nam.
I don't think so. In 1980, 50% of the country roughly was registered Democrat. Now its around 30%.
Wo where these people who "dropped out"? Reagan Democrats, who became Republicans or Independents.
There is no big pool of Reagan Democrats anymore. They don't exist in anything but the most isolated pockets, and many are now retired and out of "the system".
Yep. Morons, one and all. They will be morons right up until they drive the last manufacturer out of town.
FDR was the man who instituted modern free trade policies which have so decimated the non-competitive Rust Belt industries by taking away their guaranteed US market. They voted against their own interests out of a greed for the money they thought they could get with FDR union policies. It worked - for them -, for about 25 years until the huge recession in 1958 (a recession the Republicans were rightly punished for with 25 years in the wilderness for their complicity with FDR economic policies). Anyone with eyes could see it was all over after that as one industry after another (ship building, primary metals, steel, mining, autos, machine tools, rail equipment, textiles) folded quickly like a cheap suit over the next 25 years. It certainly sucked for their children and grandchildren.
But Americans are kept such economic illiterates, they'll never even realize what happened.
Where are these Chinese jobs? China has lost 15 million manufacturing jobs in the last decade or so. China's growth in jobs is in services.
Its the same story all around the world.
Henry Ford was a visionary and genius. He invented scores of manufacturing processes. By doing so he was able to drastically cut the cost of cars, and basically move them from rich mens toys to a utilitarian object for the middle class.
The original Ford plant, in River Rouge, started with raw ore coming on the Rouge River and ended with cars rolling out the door. Thus you had a completely integrated manufacturing facility.
Today most US Autoworkers can probably afford to buy the cars they build (though maybe not super high end models like Hummers and Cadallac Escalades).
When reading about a factory that makes hammers and axes in Pennsylvania, and has been in business since the 1800s one wonders whether they have simply been left behind.
Ford no longer makes the Model T, nor uses the same processes as they did in the T era. Any company that has been building only hammers and axes and has not diversified in 100 years is probably not going to make it to the end of the 21st century intact. The huge change in distribution channels alone assure this.
I left for the Navy in 1984. There was no jobs in PA then.
I left for the Navy in 1984. There was no jobs in PA then.
Could you explain this. Never having lived there I'm not sure what you mean.
Well Bush is not personally wrapping up equipment and shipping it to Mexico. The owners of those factories are. Now ask yourself why? Because it is too expensive to build things here. It's much cheaper in Mexico. Why? Environmental regulations play a part, but labor costs is the biggest component. Would you support elimination of minimum wages laws and getting unions out of the factories to restore American competitivness? Just curious? How about relaxing environmental regulations? I'm not advocating these things, just asking questions.
Why the attitude? Do you want to alienate voters? Do you like to reward those who will never vote for the GOP based on social issues? The professional class of voters have shifted to the Democratic party in the last 15 years, look at how NJ used to be GOP leaning and now is fairly solidly Democratic, same with Long Island.
In our two party system both parties reinvent themselves to get to the magical 50%+1 needed to win. The Dems have moved to the left on social issues in a big way in the last 50 years. In doing so they have picked up a bunch of professional voters for whom taxes are less important than gay rights, abortion rights and other stuff that motivates lefties.
The GOP has not stood still. Look that the party Reagan was part of. Nelson Rockefeller, a liberal, was one of the main players. Nixon proposed guaranteed annual incomes. Liberal compared to most GOPers today, on both social issues and economic ones.
It's interesting that neither party has really had a strong economic message. Both support internationalization and free trade, but wobble when it suits them. Clinton had 'balance the budget' as a theme but that was to co-opt the Perot vote and also because his advisors told him he couldn't have prosperity any other way. (Carvelle: "In my next life I want to come back as the bond market" quip)
At the end of the day the GOP is not important to most voters, some issues are. If jobs becomes the top issue then the Dems, with at least the ability to talk about unions, protectionism and other economic issues that normal people can relate to will probably become the majority party.
Right now the GOP runs on social issues and free trade, but it's an uneasy alliance. Many WSJ reading free traders could care less about gun rights or abortion. Many fundamentalists are only semi-sympathetic to free trade concepts. As long as they are employed it seems reasonable. Let their job be outsourced and suddenly it will not be as attractive.
I've seen dozens of friends in the computer industry go from big free trade advocates (when it was GM's jobs going to Mexico) to Perot-like protectionists (when its H1-Bs and outsourcing to India) .
Buchanan was the only recent national Republican candidate who attempted to meld populist economic notions with conservative social issues. He failed, in part because he was an imperfect vehicle for his message, in part because the Free Traders had better arguments, in part due to timing (we'd just won the cold war, not exactly the time to propose trade-unioninsm as a solution).
What is scary is to consider what happens if Kerry loses, Bush goes on to a second feeble term with continuing downsizing.
At that point you have set the stage for a true leftist Democratic candidate, far to the left of Kerry, to run and win. Inevitably GOP voting social conservatives will be screwed in the process.
The GOPs bast chance at counter acting this is getting the votes of socially conservative working class voters, but as more of them are economically displaced, they will vote Democratic.
So you say. But what is important to the leaders of the Republican party. A tricky question. My guess is that the Free Trade part of their platform is the key and the support for social conservatism is a tool to get elected. Look at the total lack of support for immigration control. When Free Trade ideology bumps up against Social Conservative values (stop the invasion, support our language and culture, don't let the SW turn into Mexico Norte) the Free Trade side wins.
An alternate strategy for the GOP is to make "small government, low taxes" their theme and embrace a more liberal social policy, dropping anti-abortion and pro-gun positions. This is probably a more likely route to majority status (ie: win soccer mom votes) then a fair-trade Buchananist approach. (You think the mainstream media is hostile to Bush!! Imagine a Buchanan or Buchananite candidate!!)
People like Bush and Kerry adopt whatever policies their handlers tell them to to 'drive wedges' 'split the vote' and 'triangulate'. Bush's thin majority last time and squeaky close polls after four years may indicate that the free trade / conservative values coalition is no longer a majority. Don't expect to see more candidates running on it if he loses. Something new will be tired (as Clinton dropped the left-economics to put his coalition into power in 1992)
What's important to you? If you want trade issues addressed Gephardt was probably the best candidate. I wanted him to win the Dem nomination because I wanted a debate on these issues. If your top issue is immigration you have no candidate. Even in the primarey season.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.