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Jamming for Jesus
Jerusalem Post ^ | July 29th, 2004 | Jenny Hazan

Posted on 08/02/2004 5:12:15 PM PDT by missyme

Though officially illegal, the capital's last Messianic Youth Ministry continues to recruit local Jewish teens

When Jerusalem-born Daniel Cohen was 15-years-old, he wanted to become a professional drummer. So when a friend told him about free drum lessons at The Jamm he went straight to the Russian Compound to check it out.

"At first, the people at The Jamm were really nice to me. They even started to teach me how to play the drums," says Cohen.

After two months of hanging out at the coffee bar/youth center, one of Cohen's newfound friends gave him a copy of the New Testament in Hebrew and began to initiate discussions on the subject of Christ. An additional two months passed before Cohen was invited to participate in a youth trip to the Sea of Galilee, where he could join other Jamm youth in a mikveh ceremony.

"He asked me if I knew what Baptism is," recalls Cohen, who is now 17. "He said it wasn't a Christian thing, but a Jewish thing for Jews who knew the 'right way.'"

"I was shocked," he continues. "I was born a Jew and I want to be a Jew and I am not interested in converting away from Judaism. It is horrible when you think you have friends and then you find out that they are actually your enemies."

Cohen isn't alone. The Jamm (Jerusalem Artists, Musicians and Media) Center has been trapping Jewish teens in its messianic web since it was established in 1998. With open mike nights on Wednesdays and Punk concerts on Thursdays, including free coffee, chai tea and snacks, the non-smoking, alcohol-free Jamm provides a clean and tempting atmosphere for Jerusalem youth.

In one of the organization's pamphlets, The Jamm describes itself as "the first and only Israeli Messianic Youth ministry center of its kind in Israel," the main goal of which is "to serve as a safe place for young people to find out about the mercies of the true and living God."

According to Aaron Rubin at Yad L'Achim (Hands to Our Brothers), a Jerusalem-based organization dedicated to helping Jewish brethren escape from the clutches of cults and missionaries, The Jamm is among 100 so-called Messianic Jewish movements across Israel, 20 congregations of which are headquartered in Jerusalem.

Rubin lists the Baptists, the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (PAOC) and Caspari near Ben Yehuda Street, where Christians from Norway offer literature and courses to augment the effectiveness of English, Russian, Hebrew and French-speaking missionaries, among the larger missionary communities in the capital city.

Although he estimates the total number of missionaries currently operating in the country at around 4,000, Rubin says their numbers have increased by 100 percent over the past decade and that they continue to grow at an even more rapid pace today.

"The number of congregations are growing," says Rubin, who attributes the boom to several factors: the successful conversion to Christianity of new immigrants from the Former Soviet Union and Ethiopia; an increased number of dissidents who reject the theology of their church in favor of establishing their own individually-run institutions; the circumvention of the Law of Return, which according to a Supreme Court ruling in September 1992 stipulates that "openly-professed belief in Jesus is enough to render a born-Jew a member of another religion and thereby not eligible under Israel's immigration law for automatic citizenship in the Jewish State"; and a general expansion of messianic activity.

Messianic Jews share a belief in the idea that Judaism is the source of Christianity. The New Testament (so-called New Covenant) represents a unified extension of the Old Testament. Main tenets include regarding God as a compound unity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and belief in Jesus' virgin birth, sinless life, atoning death, bodily resurrection and ascension to the right hand of God the Father. They await the personal, bodily return of Jesus and believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost - the former to everlasting life, the latter to everlasting judgment and condemnation. It is in this Christian philosophy that the objective of conversion and "soul-saving" originates.

According to Rubin, the most common point of confusion for Jews who are approached by Messianic Jews is their self-definition as Jews. "They say they are Jews, not Christians and that their beliefs have nothing to do with Christianity."

This approach is deceptive, explains Rubin, since one-quarter of Messianic Jewish congregations in Israel are led by Christian-educated leaders.

In addition to their deceiving self-description, initial methods to entice new congregants usually include putting up posters and websites and going to festivals and public places to distribute pamphlets and books bearing Jewish symbols.

The difference between The Jamm and other organizations of its kind is that currently, it is the only active missionary body whose target audience are minors.

"Some movements send their children to speak with Jewish children because it's more delicate," says Rubin, "but most Jewish missionaries try to stay away from kids because it is illegal."

Article 368 of the Israeli Penal Code awards a maximum six-month incarceration for attempting to convert minors under the age of 18. Article 174(A) prohibits the offering and receiving of material benefits as an inducement to conversion of anyone, including those above and below the age of 18. Anyone who gives material benefits in exchange for a commitment to change one's religion can be sentenced up to 5 years in prison and fined a maximum of NIS 50,000.

According to Yoram Sheftel, a Ramat Gan-based criminal lawyer who volunteers on behalf of Yad L'Achim, the problem is that both the prosecution and the law enforcement authorities do not enforce the law.

"They rarely enforce the laws pertaining to missionary crimes," says Sheftel, who estimates that only one or two cases are actually brought to court every year.

No legal precedent exists because both crimes are dealt with at the lowest level, the Magistrate's Court, with appeals going to the District Court.

"There is no practical chance that a case like this would make it to the Supreme Court," adds Sheftel, who in 2000 drafted a bill that to date has neither been accepted nor rejected by the Knesset, which would make any attempt to persuade anyone to change his religion an offense against the law. "As it stands, the issue is not a priority in the eyes of the Jerusalem Police and the prosecution. These cases, therefore, are generally neither investigated nor prosecuted."

Rivka Cohen, Daniel's mother, who conditioned her interview on the changing of both her and her son's names, testifies to that fact.

Once she found out what was really going on at The Jamm in April 2003, she filed a report with the Jerusalem Police, who closed the case about a month later. They reopened the file in December 2003 after she filed a letter of complaint to the minister of justice.

"I have not heard anything about it since the case was reopened eight months ago," says Rivka. "From the very beginning, the police didn't want to take me seriously."

Besides the testimony of her son and the publications he was given at The Jamm that included a copy of the New Testament, a workbook about Jesus, a CD with Christian songs and a copy of the coffee house's publication 'Youth Speak ' a collection of personal stories by Israeli youth who became 'believers' in the Messianic movement, her report consisted of a video depicting incriminating discussions between Jamm members, shot by 18-year-old Yossi Levinson, a volunteer for Yad L'Achim who went undercover to investigate the place.

"It was disgusting. The place is dedicated to making Israeli youth believe in Yeshua," says Levinson, who disguised himself as a believer looking to make a video for fundraising purposes in America, in order to unveil the true philosophy behind The Jamm. "It's not maybe yes, maybe no. It's black and white. The best thing a believer can do is to make a non-believer believe in Christ. It's an even bigger 'mitzvah' if they convert a Jew."

Levinson reveals that two days after he handed the video over to the Jerusalem Police, he got a call from friends at The Jamm inquiring how the video got into the wrong hands. "I was shocked. Until now, I don't know how they found out about the video so quickly."

The police didn't call him in for questioning until three weeks later. At the same time, Richard Ayal Frieden, owner of The Jamm, was approached by police immediately.

Frieden is proud to define himself as a Jewish believer in Yeshua, but denies that the purpose of his establishment is to convert Israeli youth.

"The Jamm," says Frieden, a former narcotics detective at the Jerusalem precinct who left his job in 1994, "is a non-profit organization that exists to promote local arts and to encourage youth and young adults in their respective musical talents. There is nothing illegal going on at The Jamm. We are not actively proselytizing young people."

"There is a witch-hunt going on," continues Frieden who, in addition to The Jamm, runs an annual week-long music camp for messianic kids and oversees the Jamm Academy of Arts, which holds after-school fine arts, multimedia and computer graphics classes taught by believing professionals and Heart Rock TV (HRTV), which produces TVY2, a 30-minute Hebrew music video program for central public access channel Tevel (Arutz Mekomi Merkaz), national public access channel 25 (Arutz Zahav Artzi), Matav Digitali and Yes 90 (Artzi Arutz Hapatuach).

"If I've committed a crime in sharing the love of God through the good work that we are doing at the Jamm," says Frieden, "then put me on the stand."

On the HRTV website, Frieden writes: "The youth of Israel are key to the future of Israel and to the expansion of the indigenous body of believers. Many Israeli youth are walking in darkness. We are here to inform them of 'the one whom they have not believed ' and introduce them to 'the one whom they have not heard' (Romans 10:14)."

Frieden explains that The Jamm holds one faith-based worship service per week, meant exclusively for members of the Jerusalem Youth Cell Group. "Each person under the age of 18 who comes on Monday night needs permission from their parents."

Minors, claims Frieden, are given a waiver that clearly indicates what the service is about, for parents to sign. "This is something that we're quite strict about."

Shmulik Ben-Rubi, spokesman for the Jerusalem Police, concurs. "We have talked to both kids and their parents and we have found that parents allow their kids to be in this place."

Ben-Rubi notes that the investigation surrounding The Jam is still open. "If we find any sign of conversion, we will act according to the law. But as far as we know, they are not trying to convert kids."

The police might have missed Cohen, who says he was invited to a worship night without being given a waiver. "I was never asked to have my parents sign a permission form. I just came on a Thursday night and they invited me to come on Monday. They invite all the people who come on Thursday to the prayer meeting. That's how I got there. I wouldn't have known about it otherwise."

According to Cohen, believer meetings are the prime time for circulating missionary literature.

"I personally don't hand out anything," says K., a 28-year-old Jamm volunteer from Germany. "I cannot hide what I believe in, but I would never force it on anybody or give someone a pamphlet."

Cohen has a different version. "They gave me workbooks and the New Testament and said that Jesus gave his life for us and we need to give our lives to Him."

Cohen, whose parents divorced a couple of years before he started spending time at The Jamm, realizes in retrospect that he was the perfect candidate for missionary activity. "It was a very rough time in my life. I needed friends and the people at The Jamm were nice. They listened and talked to me."

The believers, he says, also offered him a place to stay at their shared boys' house. "They go to the weak people and they try to take them in."

Rubin says that Cohen's assessment is accurate. "It is very difficult to change the mind of someone who doesn't have any problems in his life. That's why they are going to lonely people or people with financial or family problems. There are a lot of people out there who are in trouble and these missionaries give them hope."

Levinson asserts that awarding hope is The Jamm's most cherished technique.

"They act nice to people who don't have someone who will listen to them at home, or who don't have a nice home," he says. "The Jamm is a nice, warm place for people who don't have a nice, warm place to go."

Rubin claims that the current economic crisis in Israel and in the capital in particular, provides the missionaries with more opportunities than usual, since many Israelis are particularly needy at this time.

"It's a business," says Rubin and emphasizes that all of the messianic congregations in Israel receive money from Christian churches abroad to help them conduct their activities. "When they are speaking with Jews, they are Jews. When they try to get money from Christians, they are Christians. Basically, they are liars."

The Jamm fits the mold. Not only does the organization have affiliates in both Franklin, Tennessee and the Netherlands, it is sponsored in part by Gratefully Grafted Ministries International, headquartered in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, which offers financial support to some 40 messianic ministries in Israel, including congregations, worship centers and "outreach programs" like The Jamm.

Says Rubin, "The Jamm aims to target youth in the street and they don't have a problem getting the money to do it from abroad."

"The Jamm is a Christian fundamentalist group and nothing more than that," adds Binyamin Kluger, head of advocacy for the anti-missionary department at Yad L'Achim.

"Why are Israeli authorities doing nothing to stop them?" asks Rivka. "I just don't understand. If the law clearly says that what they are doing is wrong, why isn't anything being done about it?

"I just try to imagine what would happen if a couple of religious Jews started trying to convert Christian boys to stop believing in Yeshua. I'm sure it wouldn't hold for one week."

She then offers one reason the Israeli justice system has neglected to deal with the issue. "Perhaps Christians in America have a very big influence here, but unless we are willing to sacrifice our own Jewish kids for the donations and tourism money of Christians, our first obligation is to protect our own youth."

A letter written by then-Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu in which he expressed his disagreemet with the 1997 Proposed Bill on the Prohibition of Inducement for Religious Conversion, supports Cohen's suggestion.

"It has come to my attention that a bill before the Israeli parliament concerning possession of missionary literature has created a stir among our many Christian friends," wrote Netanyahu in response to the private member bill proposed by then-Labor Party opposition member Nissim Zvilli and Rabbi Moshe Gafni of the Yahadut HaTorah Party, which would have made the printing, distribution and possession of missionary material a crime punishable by up to one year in prison. "I would like to assure you that this bill does not have the support of the Israeli government...the government strenuously objects to this bill and will act to ensure that it does not pass. Israel deeply values your support, and we appreciate your friendship and commitment."

The reason for the legal authorities' lack of action against missionary organizations remains obscure. In the meantime, The Jamm, which has a link on the Jerusalem Municipality website, has plans to expand its horizons to include an indoor skateboarding park on Ben Yehuda Street, a project their pamphlet describes as "a [potential] harvest field for the Lord."

"There are few cases that are as black and white as The Jamm," says Rubin. "The case is very clear. Why aren't they being properly investigated or prosecuted? It's a very good question."


TOPICS: Israel; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: messianicjews
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To: geros

Kara'ites may see themselves as the modern Saducees, but that does not make them so.


681 posted on 08/06/2004 12:06:15 AM PDT by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: Piranha
I am not a Karaite, I am simply a rather unobservant Rabbinate Jew.
I would like to actually go to a Karaite service, but there are no such synagogues in NYC. I would have to go to Rochester.
682 posted on 08/06/2004 12:11:27 AM PDT by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: SJackson

Why do you keep calling me a liar when you proceed to post C&P material that proves I'm telling the truth on you? And why are personal insults and abuse so necessary for you?
I'm afraid I don't have the time to C&P as much as you (I have both a job and a life), but thanks for proving that you want CHRISTIANS IN ISRAEL JAILED FOR PREACHING THE GOSPEL, and that you wish death on them (whether you're repeating someone else's clever admonition or not).
You may continue to believe that repeatedly mislabeling me a liar will make it true. But be assured that I will continue sharing the word of Christ to you and all others (and the latter actually IS True).
The blessings of Christ the Messiah to you, SJackson...


683 posted on 08/06/2004 6:13:51 AM PDT by Kerfuffle
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To: churchillbuff

No, you are saying that it is so chilling that anyone would advocate banning any activities under free speech. I guess it's only free speech if it has to do with evengelizing to us hellbound Jews and our kids, eh?


684 posted on 08/06/2004 9:25:13 AM PDT by Bella_Bru (It's for the children = It takes a village)
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To: Bella_Bru
evengelizing to us hellbound Jews and our kids, eh?""

I believe in freedom of speech for everybody -- christians, jews, buddists, atheists, etc. Apparently, if you believe in free speech, you don't think the freedom should extend to christians.

685 posted on 08/06/2004 10:40:02 AM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: Bella_Bru

Here's the difference between you and me. I think you should have the freedom to say -- even to kids -- that christianity is wrong. But you DON'T think I should have the freedom to say that christianity is right.


686 posted on 08/06/2004 10:41:10 AM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff
Hey, you want to advocate people trying to convert Jewish kids and usurp their parents' authority, fine by me. I'll advocate keeping Jewish kids Jewish.

But please, could you answer my questions?

Why not be happy for Jews who are observant and teaching their children Torah and Talmud? Would you discourage Jewish parents from trying to raise Jewish children and keep them in their faith? Would you prefer it if they did not so that your proselytizing might be easier?

687 posted on 08/06/2004 10:56:49 AM PDT by Bella_Bru (It's for the children = It takes a village)
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To: rmlew

I can respect that, but even if you beleive Jesus Christ is not the Messiah he was man without sin or harm to others no one else can make that claim....

Mohammed was a child molester a violent man.

Jesus was a Rabbi a teacher he taught "Good Things"

He never taught the people not to obey TORAH he taught for people to love the Sinner...

So Jesus is not comparable in love compassion and forgiveness to any other human being.

Wether he is the Messiah or not (I beleive hs is) that will be revealed in GOD's time.

Jesus was crucified by the Romans and he did not condemn one of them how many human beings do you know in history that would do that I beg to say no one..


688 posted on 08/06/2004 1:45:35 PM PDT by missyme
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To: rmlew

No I think Sodomites are Gay Men. Jersusalem should not let them hold there Annual Gay Pride Festival in 2005..I am sure you would agree with that...


689 posted on 08/06/2004 1:48:15 PM PDT by missyme
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To: rmlew

Sometimes it is a neccesity to turn you back on your earthly families however you should never turn your back on the one True Living GOD, that is the biggest Sin a human being can commit..


690 posted on 08/06/2004 2:19:15 PM PDT by missyme
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To: rmlew

I wrote in an earlier post in case you did not see that one that I think Jews who (Adults of Course) believe that Jesus is the Promised Messiah of Israel are the best ones to engage in dialouge with other Jews about all issues regarding Jesus, that is how it all started....

In Ancient Israel Jews who believed in Jesus were accepted in the Synagogues they were just another sect of Judiasm, in case you did not know even after the Death and Reseurection of Jesus the Apostles still had no clue how to preach the Word of Jesus to the Gentiles because they still thought of Gentiles as "Dirty Pigs"

It wasn't until the Holy Spirit came upon them they started to reach some gentiles but even then there was great controversy with other Jews regarding the following of TORAH for gentiles...

If Jesus was never taken to the Gentile world. I believe we would have Judiasm that would encompass the Messiahship of Jesus and the rest of the world would be Un-Richetous Gentiles and Pagan religions....


691 posted on 08/06/2004 2:31:55 PM PDT by missyme
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To: rmlew

I understand what you are saying and I am beginning to understand better. I suppose if it is written, it will be, despite my or anyone's efforts. I was probably a bit too zealous in my wish to convert Jews. I still think evangelism should be legal, but I leave that to Messianic Jews. It is hard enough trying to win over people without faith at all. I would rather spend my efforts enlightening people who need God rather than fighting to convert someone who already has a beleif system.
I do understand that Judaism is a local, tribal religion and that Christianity is global in nature. But do understand that God of the Israelites is also my Lord, who looks after me and keeps me safe. Those who wish to convert Jews in their heart are doing it not out of malice, but love. I hope you aren't offended, but Revelations says in the end times, the Israelites will know Christ is the Messiah. I figure Jesus knows it will take a miraculous effort to convert Jews! I am sure when He returns, the Israelites will not deny Him.


692 posted on 08/06/2004 11:36:03 PM PDT by followerofchrist
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To: missyme

unfortunately, the government is fairly secular and there is a leftist Supereme Court imagining a Constitution on the model of the USSR.


693 posted on 08/09/2004 12:50:47 AM PDT by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: missyme
I wrote in an earlier post in case you did not see that one that I think Jews who (Adults of Course) believe that Jesus is the Promised Messiah of Israel are the best ones to engage in dialouge with other Jews about all issues regarding Jesus, that is how it all started....
I have no problem with this being done in a voluntarily and respectful manner. Would you support the reverse; Jews working to convert Christians?

In Ancient Israel Jews who believed in Jesus were accepted in the Synagogues they were just another sect of Judiasm, in case you did not know even after the Death and Reseurection of Jesus the Apostles still had no clue how to preach the Word of Jesus to the Gentiles because they still thought of Gentiles as "Dirty Pigs"
At first they were treated like an apostate sect. Later, they were seen as little different than those from the first break in the Israelite faith, Samaritans. This view changed when the Roman Empire became Christian.

It wasn't until the Holy Spirit came upon them they started to reach some gentiles but even then there was great controversy with other Jews regarding the following of TORAH for gentiles...
Jews in diaspora always preached to gentiles. If you will note, many Egyptians joined the Israelites, althiugh they turned back.

If Jesus was never taken to the Gentile world. I believe we would have Judiasm that would encompass the Messiahship of Jesus and the rest of the world would be Un-Richetous Gentiles and Pagan religions.
Perhaps. On the other hand, many sects were formed and died. Are there any Essenes left today?

694 posted on 08/09/2004 12:56:56 AM PDT by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: rmlew

Thanks for your reply....
A Couple of things you said from this post...I really feel if Jews thought that believing in Jesus as the Son of GOD was a pagan belief, I would welcome there preaching to conversion, one reason I think they cannot IMHO is that today the Messianic movement is growing like a wildfire and many Jewish believers are not abandoning Judaism for another sect of Christianity and this is causing some hostile feelings as well as confusement I think in Judaism as a whole....

From the reading I have done about the first believers in Jesus (Jews) is that they were not apostate they were welcomed in the temple to preach they were not called christians but were called "Followers of the Way" I think you have to remember the apostles and there followers which were many who came to the temple to hear of Jesus' message were not adandoning Judaism they were still honoring the sabbath and the dietary laws, and reading from TORAH...

The preaching to Gentiles was how to bring them into the convenant that the Jews already had with GOD.

My understanding is that the Jews of diaspora who preached to gentiles were preaching monotheism not how to bring them in a convenant with GOD. That is why there was such a great divide with the early Jews and Gentiles because some felt gentiles needed to honor the sabbath and dietary laws.

In any event I things went pretty much haywire when the early church through anything that was remotely Jewish about "Followers of the Way" out of a New Religion they created with Jesus......Many churches I think now are learning this that is why the Catholic Church and many other denominations of Christianity are trying to incorporate different Jewish rituals into there service because they are realizing the Jewishness that truly is at the core of there belief...

Do you think Messianic Jews are apostate?


695 posted on 08/09/2004 4:40:48 AM PDT by missyme
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To: missyme
A Couple of things you said from this post...I really feel if Jews thought that believing in Jesus as the Son of GOD was a pagan belief, I would welcome there preaching to conversion, one reason I think they cannot IMHO is that today the Messianic movement is growing like a wildfire and many Jewish believers are not abandoning Judaism for another sect of Christianity and this is causing some hostile feelings as well as confusement I think in Judaism as a whole....
It's complicated.
We don't want to anger the Christians with conversion activities. Remember that religious tolerence for Jews is has not been the historical norm.

From the reading I have done about the first believers in Jesus (Jews) is that they were not apostate they were welcomed in the temple to preach they were not called christians but were called "Followers of the Way" I think you have to remember the apostles and there followers which were many who came to the temple to hear of Jesus' message were not adandoning Judaism they were still honoring the sabbath and the dietary laws, and reading from TORAH...
Believing that Jesus was the Messiah was not apostacy. It was only the cult that grew around Jesus, holding that he rose from the dead and was the son of God, that was apostacy.

My understanding is that the Jews of diaspora who preached to gentiles were preaching monotheism not how to bring them in a convenant with GOD. That is why there was such a great divide with the early Jews and Gentiles because some felt gentiles needed to honor the sabbath and dietary laws.
In general, Jews in diaspora communities reached out to their neighbors. This varied from teaching them about Judaism to promote tolerance, to moving the pagans from idolitary towards the Noachide code, and in many cases to full conversion. There have been a number of nations that converted to or were dominated by an elite that converted to Judaism. In Arabia there was Himayar and Yathrib in Arabia. Ethiopia was once ruled by Jews. The Lemba of Africa are ruled by a caste of Cohens. Likewise, survivors of the kingdom of Cyrene, crushed by the Romans in 117, moved into Berbery north Africa and began to dominate. In 694, the Berber tribes were lead by a Queen Kahena in their struggle against Arab expansion.
Perhaps the most famous converts were the Khazar nobility which covnerted between 739 and 860.

Do you think Messianic Jews are apostate?
They are just as Apostate as Frankists and followers of Shabattai Zvi in the 17th century, or "Kabbalists" and Judeao-Buddhists are today.

696 posted on 08/10/2004 12:43:40 AM PDT by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: rmlew

Good post..
Some history I was not aware of...
But I would like to ask you this when you say the Jews (Ancient Biblically) were not preaching so much to there neighbors as they were more tolerant (If I am understanding you correctly)then in regards to the Samaritans who were hated by the Jews at that period in time and were treated like 2nd class citizens, Jesus had went up to a Samaitan woman who was drinking from the well and Jesus spoke with her, the Samaritan woman said ""Why are you a Jew speaking to me?" Was not Jesus trying to show the Jews of his time a way to reach out to others that the Pharisees would deem as Apostate or Sinners?

Also when you say it is only Apostate to believe Jesus rose from the dead or is worshipped as the Son of GOD, what information tells you differently? meaning what do you believe happened to his body after he had died? and how do you account for the multitudes of people who saw him in the flesh after he died? "Saul on the road to Damascus" I only ask you this because this is what I have studied in New Testament Scriptures and of course some other things that have happened to me personally with a belief in Jesus.
I understand and have read accounts from within Judiasm why they do not think Jesus was Messaih because they interpet Isaiah in a different way then what my understanding is, but I have never read or heard Rabbi's say anything on what document proof they have on what actually happened to Jesus's body after he died or how they acocunt for the hundreds of Jews who witnessed him after he had rose from the dead?
Thank you for your reply...


697 posted on 08/10/2004 6:48:31 AM PDT by missyme
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