Posted on 08/02/2004 5:49:37 AM PDT by BluegrassScholar
Edited on 08/02/2004 10:43:46 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Carrie is 2 years old, with curly brown hair and Windex-blue eyes. In a still-life portrait, she would be adorable. In three dimensions, she's a cross between a Gerber baby and the Tasmanian devil. Bang. Bang, bang, bang, and bang and bang.
That's the noise of the plastic water cup she is whacking against the ceramic-topped table of a neighborhood coffeehouse whose concrete floors function like an echo chamber. If she had a hammer she would have destroyed the table by now, and I'm pretty sure her parents would've let her. People look up from their lattes, squint at the diminutive figure making the big, ear-splitting noise, and try to continue with their newspapers or conversations. The banging goes on for a good 10 minutes. Normally, I would say something -- I'm not shy about these things -- but I'm curious to know just how long her parents, with whom I'm having coffee, will let this go. The answer: Indefinitely. They don't even seem to notice. Maybe they're just used to it?
On some primal level, Carrie must be offended that she's not the center of attention. There is anger in her banging, along with what I read as malice. As she grows even more restive, her father lowers her to the floor. Still clutching the cup, Carrie crawls through the room, pounding on the concrete floor as she goes along, giving everyone an up-close earful of her drum solo.
A few weeks later, I'm at a party, mostly adults with a few kids sprinkled in, among them the volcanically unruly 5-year-old son of a friend. As I squat down to greet him, he responds by biting me in the arm, leaving teeth marks through a shirt and a sweater. I am just about to spank his little behind when I realize I'm in dangerous territory. People go to jail for that these days.
I would try to find a real family counselor (maybe through) a church. Your husband needs to know that he is actually hurting his son. Maybe if he hears it from someone besides you, then he will listen.
Good luck.
Some family friends of ours when I was growing up had two daughters around my age. The parents had a firm rule: no "spending the night" at anybody else's house, ever. It was an excellent rule, since there's no good reason for a child ever to spend the night at another family's home (barring a serious emergency), and it eliminates the need for the parents to share with children their judgements or suspicions about the fitness of various friends' parents. It also eliminated the "but, WHYYYYYYYYYY?" routines when the answer was no. Invitations never even got referred to their parents; if someone said "maybe you can spend the night at our house", the girls just said "we're not allowed to spend the night" and that was that. At the time, I thought it was unnecessarily strict; now I'm quite sure I'll apply the rule to my own children.
I'm sure you're right.
NO! has to follow with preferably IMMEDIATE SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCES--at least very annoying, if not painful--
or it has no meaning.
Indeed. I believe their action meets the legal definition of kidnapping in most, if not all states.
Bling !! We have a winnaaaahhhh !
Red
Sometimes, I've been brazen enough to say, with a very incongruous cheery tone of voice:
"MY GOODNESS! YOU ARE DOING SUCH AN OVERWHELMINGLY GOOD JOB OF PREPARING YOUR SON/DAUGHTER FOR A LIFE IN PRISON! You are fitting the patter perfectly."
I think I might now add:
"Keep up the horrid work and you'll have years of endless grief for your troubles."
Of course, I might want to be in my car driving away at the time!
I agree with that. My two older ones are opposite. Daughter can handle being out anywhere, autistic son..it is iffy. WE can kind of judge it by how he's behaving at home and if we have made a bad call, we immediately call the excursion short and head home with everyone.
As someone who has owned retail businesses for 25 years, I can guarantee that children in general grow more undisciplined by the day. So many parents now have no clue what PARENTING is. They're too concerned about their kids LIKING them to discipline them. At the core, failure to discipline is cowardice at best, apathy at worst. Let's face it: It's HEARTBREAKING to discipline the child you love. It is, however, the duty of a parent to suffer that heartbreak for the good of the child.
MM
My three (27, 21 and 20) heard "No" plenty often enough, but I'll join the bandwagon in blaming the libs.
When my oldest was 13 or 14 we'd gone shopping for shoes. Money was in short supply, so she didn't get the (then) $80 Nikes. She was in a snit, and told me that not buying what she wanted was child abuse (She'd learned about it in school, you see) and that she was going to call Children's Protective Service on me.
I decided to save her the trouble, and drove directly to the police station with instructions to turn me in. She wouldn't get out of the car.
Needless to say, she changed her tune when she got her first part time job, and realized how long SHE would have to work for those shoes.
When the younger two were 14 and 13, I kicked their father out of the house. He developed a habit of dating while married, and just couldn't understand why I was upset. Eighteen months later, I met my current husband, whom the kids hated on principle. Their father paid them no attention, and I was finally starting to have a life.
For more than six months, every time I said no, I was told they'd just go live with their father.
Push came to shove one day in June, 1999, when my daughter cursed me out and my son hit me. They were gone within hours, and haven't spoken to me since.
And I have tried, repeatedly, to make contact.
What I don't understand is parents taking kids to places that are obviously not kid oriented.
For example, my husband and I went to a 10:00 showing of "I, Robot" last weekend. My in-laws were visiting so they were watching our kids.
There was a man there with his young son (5 or under) in the movie.
The kid actually did well, but it was late and the show was inappropriate for a 5 year old.
I also don't like going to a nice restaurant and seeing kids being loud, etc. Why not go to a family restaurant (pizza joint, McDonald's, Chili's)? How many 2 year olds can stand a sit-down restaurant where they have to be quiet for over an hour?
I know of too many parents that keep their kids up late and don't give them naps and then complain about the kids misbehaving.
I figured this out early with my daughter with brain damage (and horrible tantrums). Her tantrums were usually when she was tired. I purposely did not go out after about 4pm because she would lose it. I also had a very strict bedtime for my kids when they were little. When she was 3, she was in a special ed day class for a few months. I ended pulling her out because she wasn't able to take a nap. It ended at 2:30, and then we had to go get my son from school. By the time we got home it was almost 4 and too late for nap. She had horrible tantrums every day when I got my son. I would have to put her down for a nap and then she wouldn't go to bed early.
I ended up pulling her from the special ed class, and my life got easier. She took naps and was happier. She made more speech progress at home. I think because she was well rested.
I used to tell my jedis the same thing every time we were going out in public, be it the grocery or out to eat or the library...any time, I told them the same thing. Now, when we go out I ask them:
"Are you going to behave?"
"Yes." they reply.
"Why?" I ask...
"Because we are representatives of Jesus Christ, homeschoolers and our family." they reply.
I frequently get comments from people about how well they behave. Whenever a stranger comments in a positive way, the jedis get hypothetical "Brownie Points" that they can cash if they get in some kind of minor trouble!
Certainly spankings are not the one and only form of discipline that we use. I was one of those kids who did not mind a spanking.
We use time-outs, losing privileges amongst many things to discipline our kids. We also praise good behavior. But both of our kids go through phases of very defiant streaks where they ultimately receive a few spankings. Eventually they catch on that its a lot more pleasant to not have mom and dad whacking their bottoms and receiving more privileges.
I have yet to see a child who has not gone through similar hard-headed, defiant streaks.
You make a point that hits home for me. My son is only 4 and is autistic. We've had so many comments on how well-behaved our children are and these are strangers who have no idea he is disabled(he's not one you can tell by looking that something is off--unless you are looking for it and are familiar with autism). When I read things like this and sometimes have that guilt creep in because we use "negatives", I feel like tooting my own horn because our son does so well.
For those with children grown or none who are commenting here, please always say something to someone with well-behaved children. You don't know how much it is appreciated and boosts us to continue our course.
I wonder where the kids hear all of this. My almost 10 year old does know all of the cuss words, but the only time he has "used them" it's spelled out. He'll tell me that some kid said the "f-word". He'll talk about the devil being in "H-e-**".
My daughters still don't know what the "f-word" is, and they are 7.
I read that kids go through a cussing phase at 4 or 5, but my kids never have. (They did go through a potty mouth phase.)
I get so irritated by bad parents that whenever I see one I become even more strict with my own child.
Poor child ... catching it because of the sins of others. :^)
I can see spanking for certain situations, but if you have a 2 year old who is not up to going out in public, maybe is completely bored surrounded by adults in a restaurant for example --- put yourself in his shoes. Imagine someone forcing you to go to something like the Democrat Convention and telling you to sit still, listen, and behave. You see Hillary about to go up to the podium and you make a beeline to the door --- and someone picks you up and swats you, slams you back into your chair and tells you to sit quietly. Time goes on, now you see Bill Clinton on his way to the podium, by now you are utterly bored and disgusted being in a place you never would have chosen to be in. You begin to try to leave again --- same thing --- now you start to throw a fit......
To me kids are usually okay if they are taken only to places they are ready --- old enough to go to or have an interest in. If not --- just leave them home.
I also can't stand to see a child chew gum in church. They smack and blow bubbles; very disruptive. And children who are older than 5 lying down all over the pews. I make my children sit up straight.
I think it's the parents who really want to put on a show --- I wonder in my grandfathers' generation, how many young kids were expected to go to a fine restaurant in the first place --- or were kids better behaved because they weren't expected to go to adult functions.
Recently there was a happy hour event from work, one woman first goes home to pick up her 2 year old active boy. He would jump out of the chair and run to the door, she's chase him, and put him back in his chair. There were no other kids at the table, no one was making conversation with him, and he'd jump up and run to the door with his giggling mother right behind him, then he'd run in another direction with his giggling mom still chasing behind him. I think it was really she who mostly enjoyed all the attention they were making.
Thank you for saying that. My daughter was (sometimes still is) a "bad" kid. She has brain damage. There are no books about how to raise a brain damaged kid, and I know more than the doctors.
The thing is that if we were out in public and she was tantruming, my other two kids were angels. They would help me. They'd carry my purse, or they would sit quietly. They never acted up when she was going. They never complained. We would sit in a car for 30 minutes with her screaming, and the other two would sit quietly.
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