Posted on 08/02/2004 5:49:37 AM PDT by BluegrassScholar
Edited on 08/02/2004 10:43:46 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Carrie is 2 years old, with curly brown hair and Windex-blue eyes. In a still-life portrait, she would be adorable. In three dimensions, she's a cross between a Gerber baby and the Tasmanian devil. Bang. Bang, bang, bang, and bang and bang.
That's the noise of the plastic water cup she is whacking against the ceramic-topped table of a neighborhood coffeehouse whose concrete floors function like an echo chamber. If she had a hammer she would have destroyed the table by now, and I'm pretty sure her parents would've let her. People look up from their lattes, squint at the diminutive figure making the big, ear-splitting noise, and try to continue with their newspapers or conversations. The banging goes on for a good 10 minutes. Normally, I would say something -- I'm not shy about these things -- but I'm curious to know just how long her parents, with whom I'm having coffee, will let this go. The answer: Indefinitely. They don't even seem to notice. Maybe they're just used to it?
On some primal level, Carrie must be offended that she's not the center of attention. There is anger in her banging, along with what I read as malice. As she grows even more restive, her father lowers her to the floor. Still clutching the cup, Carrie crawls through the room, pounding on the concrete floor as she goes along, giving everyone an up-close earful of her drum solo.
A few weeks later, I'm at a party, mostly adults with a few kids sprinkled in, among them the volcanically unruly 5-year-old son of a friend. As I squat down to greet him, he responds by biting me in the arm, leaving teeth marks through a shirt and a sweater. I am just about to spank his little behind when I realize I'm in dangerous territory. People go to jail for that these days.
I'm sure. I've never been to either house, though I would like to.
I didn't get to finish the article, but it does hit home. We have always been very conscious of our children's behavior, often time getting surprised comments at how well-behaved they are(and one is an autistic boy to boot) making me think that some people, particularly elderly, see us coming with 3 children, and think to themselves, oh, here we go. First off those who don't discipline their children make it uncomfortable for those of us to do to walk into a restaurant or store without the polite public going "oh no". It makes our job more difficult when other parents don't do theirs(nothing gets kids more excited then seeing another child running around with reckless abandon). On that note though, it would also make our job easier if people would not politely say "that's ok" when my child is misbehaving and they are being disciplined. It is not ok, so please let me discipline my child and don't defend their bad behavior in the interest of making me more comfortable. If they are doing somethign wrong, please tell me. I know you have to contend with those who thihk their children can do no wrong and will get offended that you pointed that out, but there are those of us who want to know if one of our little ones are misbehaving, doing something dangerous, etc.
I have 9 children (8 are adults. The youngest is, well, a teenager).
All of my kids had inside/outside personalities. That is, inside the house they were like little Huns, destroying everything in their parth. Outside, in public, though, they behaved like perfect little angels.
People used to come up to me on the street and tell me "Your son ### is so wonderful! Why he did this, that and the other and he's so mature and polite!"
And they wondered why I looked so confused. "This is one of MY kids they're talking about? How come he doesn't act like that at home."
But to quote Shrek, "better out than in, I always say."
BTW, my spouse and I are not alwasy in agreement on this. He was from a lax family background and mine was overly strict. We meet in the middle most of the time with him having to temper me as to when it is ok for them to just be kids and me having to temper him with when he needs to interceed when their behavior is inappropriate. As the "bad cop" all the time, I can see how easy it is to give up though when you have a spouse who is always "good cop".
AppyPappy...
First off, I'm honored, I have been reading your posts many years and appreciate your response very much...
now.. for the excuses!!
The food situation is tough because my husband is responsible for shopping and paying for the food. It's one of the few bills he pays, (he works part time due to severe arthritis, severe).... He buys plenty of real food, just does not force this boy into trying any of it!
The dinner/food thing is only indicative of the other problems...
You are right they are not my biological children, but I have supported them for many years. I enable so much c-r-a-p, I am at my wits end... I realize this is ME, but without authority, my hands seem tied. I feel ostricized when I criticize... (a little rhyme)
Unfortunately, I would be the one leaving, since there is no tolerance for "bitching" or making life uncomfortable (your point exactly to make it hard for them, not me). And lately, I have considered this option... not divorce, just a little lesson in respect. The oldest has been given until month's end. We'll see.
The 14 yo is in for a rude awakening. He has always been a brat, and has been empowered by his father. I always told him that the real world would teach him the lessons he needs, but this is too far in the future to have any impact.
Believe me, when my husband is absent, I tell this child just what I think... and not so nicely sometimes.
Get good advice (yours)... make excuses, and keep on doing the same things... sounds like a recipe for brats that turn into arrogant adults that don't have to follow rules.
I am considering your advice and will continue to "disable" the overly enabled!!
Best to you and thanks again... ba7
ps... I know this is WAY TOO much information... just venting a little...
Another time I got the evil eye for swatting his butt in a shopping line. You can't make everybody happy, so you do the best you can.
My understanding is that the school at Taliesan West, North of Scottsdale, AZ is still functioning as a studio/school. It's a nice tour. And so is Arcosanti at Cordes Junction between Phoenix and Flagstaff.
Actually, I've also said similar wording in sweet tones while smiling kindly.
I don't know that either one has consistently had a better response. Though the latter has seemed less hazardous to my welfare, LOL!
"Restless children were rolled into small squirming human balls with their knees tied firmly beneath their chins, and booted back and forth across the floor by their elders.
Other youngsters were dangled by their heels out of windows, or forced to kneel on sharp sticks, or made to sit precariously for long periods on a one-legged stool called the unipod, or compelled to wear a painful cleft stick on the tip of the nose.
Partners in juvenile crime were yoked together in miniature versions of an oxbow. Small malefactors were made to wear shame-signs that proclaimed their offenses: 'Lying Ananias,' or 'Bite-Fingers Baby.'
Large children were caned or whipped; little ones were slapped with ferules, and tiny infants were tapped sharply on the skull with hard ceramic thimbles.
Another common punishment was a wooden bit called the whispering stick, firmly set between the teeth and fastened by a cord behind the neck. To the front was added a shame-paper that read, 'he whispers.'
If memory serves me...I laughed when they said it...and told them good luck..!! They had two boys....and probably wore out the word "no"...LOL!!!
Though I haven't encountered that yet (and hopefully I won't), I find that insistance works when my son forgets his "Ps and Qs". For instance, if he says, "I'd like a glass of water" I wait and give him "look #1", waiting for him to use please. If he doesn't reply with "please" I say "I'd like a glass of water . . . " and he usually responds with please.
Same for thank you. If I don't perceive a forthcoming "thank you," (though he almost habitually does), I don't relinquish full control of the requested item until I hear "thank you," though admittedly in my case, that rarely happens.
...and, as a former waiter and avid restaraunt goer, I absolutely insist on "please" and "thank you" in a dining situation.
I am a childfree woman and your post about parents wanting to be friends with their kids reminded me of an essay that was written by Al Capp (the creator of Lil Abner). While I do not remember all of the essay, I certainly remember what he wrote at the end: Be Parents to your kids. No kid needs a 36-year-old for a pal!
Yes, but what works for all children is to have the ADULTS in charge of determining what discipline methods will be employed.
That's illegal and dangerous. You should have tipped off the police. Can't pass safety inspection with no horn, and it's illegal to be driving a car when you know it can't pass safety inspection.
I agree with you. Only recently has my 6 yr old had choices as to what she eats for lunch, but even then, the whole fridge is not at her disposle--more like we are having sandwiches, do you want balogna or peanut butter. Or she has a choice of fruits. She got to start having choices when she could help with the preparation of food and clean up--only very recently. Same thing with cereals--there is a point every couple months where so many cereals are on sale and I load up--if it was up to the kids, they'd have every box open, but our rule is we only have two open at one time and one of those boxes has to be finished before we open another.
Your story reminds me of a time when we were watching some bratty kids of a friend and my husband had to yell at one of them ( I would say he was about 6 at the time.)
Kid says, "Uncle Billy, the book says you dont yell at kids."
Husband replies, "the book also says dont talk back to grownups but you probably didn't read the whole book."
The kids was stunned into silence...LOL
The kid is almost 8 now and still a royal pain in the neck KNOW it all who is also very aggressive with all the other children. : (
At a party last week he was literally dunking a kid half his size in one of those easy set 2.5 ft pools...the poor little boys mother witnessed and yelled at him, his own mother came out said what is going on said get out of pool and his punishement was to sit at the table with a bowl of potatoe chips..... ARGHHHHH
for anyone who disagrees with you I've got three words; John Walker Lindt. (remember the American Taliban)
Do you have any advice on sibling rivalry? I am dying here with my son 12 and my daughter 8. Its nonstop when they are around together : ( I try to stay out of a lot of it hoping they figure it out on their own and I also see them being friends from time to time but what are the techniques you use with 10?
Grellis this is a great topic for your thread : )
I told my neighbor's teenage kids to imagine them as being 80 years old and with a tattoo. They didn't like the image.
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