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To: familyop

Okay, so you save a homosexual from getting married, but now he hates you and everything you stand for. How do you plan to lead him to Christ now that you are his enemy? Where is the "Love your neighbor" in this? Look, I know it's hard- it's even in direct opposite from our own human natures- but we have to love those who hate us. We have to bless those who curse us. It makes no sense and yet we must do this for God, for the church of Christ is not a warrior cult, we do not do God's dirty work, we are not the judges or juries of creation. We are sinners. They are, too. But it is a SIN to allow our salvation to make us feel superior than another. It is a festering evil in the soul. It is called PRIDE and it happens whenever one person is given reason to feel superior to another. Stay in your homes. Go ahead and raise your children in a saccharine world where evil does not exist. Surround them with those who sing only of the praises of God. Then watch them live isolated lives, never even attempting to witness to others. Because here's the rub- if you don't know a person, you can't witness to him. You can't be apart from the world AND affect it in any way.
Homosexuality is wrong, but homosexuals are humans, and are covered by Christ's blood just the same as you, or I, or anyone else is. Ask yourself this: Is your religion that of the Pharisee or that of Jesus? The Pharisees were certainly opposed to sin, that much we know. But they were also consumed with their own piety, emboldened by their religious fervor to point out flaws in others' characters. I thought Jesus came to deliver us from that part of us.


7 posted on 07/25/2004 3:20:57 PM PDT by AdequateMan
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To: AdequateMan
We do not love anyone by endorsing their harmful behavior. You have your Pharisee comparison all mixed up. They were not against sin for themselves. They were against sin for others -- so much so that they were willing to stone to death a woman who was guilty of something they did themselves. It was the hypocrisy that was the issue. Jesus did not address it by saying "do not call adultery wrong. In fact, embrace it and reward it." No. He called the Pharisees on their hypocrisy and he told the woman to "go and sin no more." He showed His love by DYING for us. He did not show His love by lowering the definition of right and wrong. He is holy. His love was action, not emotion. You can say we should love these people by helping them with the consequences of their folly. That would be a parallel love. But we do not show Christ like love by defining morality down.

Consider who prepared the way for Jesus. What was his message? Do you remember? Why did God give mankind a law at all, if He had no hope for obedience? See, too many Christians try to define God in mushy emotional terms. That is not the God of the Bible. His love is tough love. He forgives only after atonement. He offers atonement to those who repent. Define sin down and delete the power of the cross. How can one repent from that which is not wrong?

Granted our government is not about saving people from eternal damnation. It is about functioning together as a culture, all equally participating in this consent of the governed form of government. How do we answer God when He looks on our Nation and finds us too apathetic or ashamed of His standards to even speak up, vote, or participate in any way? We are the government. There is no Caesar in America whom we are obligated to render unto. WE are the Caesar of America. On what basis do we think our laws should be founded? We have a right to be heard and to vote. We have no right, in this gov't, to take from others their right to vote and be heard. But if we win it is because the people have spoken. We have a right to win. We are no more imposing than the other side. May it be a fair, Republican form of gov't fight, and may the best ideas win.

The winners in this debate will shape the minds of future generations. They will set the standards for all that is considered fair, right and good in our culture. Do not be deceived. If our gov't bestows on gays a protected status equal to being black or hispanic, then it will become illegal to discriminate or speak out against their behavior. We will lose our freedoms. This is not about tolerance and privacy. It is about the hearts and minds of future generations of Americans. Shame on us if we talk ourselves into withdrawing from the fight.

9 posted on 07/25/2004 3:59:25 PM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Legislatures are so outdated. If you want real political victory, take your issue to court.)
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To: AdequateMan
No, we cannot judge souls, but we are obligated to judge ACTIONS as right or wrong, tolerable or intolerable. Hatred is to say: "Go to hell-in-a-handbasket for all I care."
37 posted on 07/25/2004 6:34:19 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: AdequateMan
Okay, so you save a homosexual from getting married, but now he hates you and everything you stand for. How do you plan to lead him to Christ now that you are his enemy?

Where is the "Love your neighbor" in this?

I suppose you could engage in his type of culture but I strongly recommend you don't.

I also recommend you take another look at "Love your neighbor" in its original context because it does not mean what you say it means.


40 posted on 07/25/2004 6:53:15 PM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: AdequateMan
It has nadda to do with "pride", or being "superior". Homosexuals are NOT covered by Christ's blood unless they repent just like the rest of us have to. All sinners who do not repent are under the wrath of God just like in the Old Testament. To pat a homosexual on the back and tell him he's okay is to condemn him to eternal loss. They hate the idea that there is a God who will judge us all, and they hate those that relate that fact to them. The hate comes from the sinner, not the messenger.

However, the majority of homosexuals not only refuse to repent, they call God a liar by denying they are committing a sin. Should a healthy society accept their behavior as normal?

It's "normal" for a heathen society to accept homosexuality, and heathen societies are not blessed by God. Not being blessed by God effects all of us. This nation was founded on Christian principles and this nation was blessed to give the world medicine, electricity, communications, flight, the list goes on. Now we are watching it all be "outsourced" the farther we remove ourselves from God.

78 posted on 07/25/2004 9:24:10 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: AdequateMan

Hey! -- that's funny! You're bringing us correction for bringing correction to those practicing homosexual sin! You're saying it's wrong for people to say something's wrong.

You know that the truth is a stumbling block to some, foolishness to others. If it's not, then it's not the truth. Yes -- say the truth in love, but you need to say the truth. Don't try to be so "gentle" and "caring" that you withold the good news of salvation from those in bondage to homosexual sin....

Your argument strikes me as a "seeker-sensitive" one. You realize, of course, that non-Christians just don't "seek" God? No, they are running the other direction as fast as they can, and the Lord arrests them, calling them, drawing them to himself. Or if you don't like that "running away from God" metaphor, let's go right to Scripture, which tells us that we were "dead in our sins" prior to being saved. That says to me that we were "dead," and not "seeking."

It's important that the truth be spoken to those outside of Christ. The truth of the cross of Christ, spoken lovingly, is a sweet thing to those whom the Lord is calling....

(You say some pretty doctrinally-off things in your last paragraph: "homosexuals ... are covered by Christ's blood just the same as you or I or anyone else is." Whoa! If someone is not "in Christ," then I don't understand how you can say that they are "covered by Christ's blood." I'm not saying there aren't Christians who struggle with homosexuality. I know there are. I've known a few Christian guys who struggled with it. But to say essentially that everyone is "in Christ" is just sloppy doctrine, my friend.)


79 posted on 07/25/2004 9:31:14 PM PDT by Theo (homeschooling: small class sizes, effective discipline, healthy socialization, family values ...)
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