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We could have done this very thing in the US...we have more coal than anyone. The environmentalists have effectively blocked any knowledge of or attempts to use this technology. I think this option should be made known to the masses.
1 posted on 07/20/2004 9:27:16 AM PDT by Baby Bear
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To: Baby Bear

I prefer the Corn-to-Liquid solution.


2 posted on 07/20/2004 9:37:06 AM PDT by snopercod (I took a shot of dopamine and it turned me into a dope.)
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To: Baby Bear
What 'energy woes'?? We've got all the gasoline, natural gas, et. al. we want. Maybe not at a price we'd like, but then neither are porterhouse steaks, new cars, movie tickets, or veterinarian bills.
3 posted on 07/20/2004 9:41:00 AM PDT by yankeedame ("Born with the gift of laughter & a sense that the world was mad.")
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To: Baby Bear

Since oil is a fungible good, if this process is as cheap as is claimed, we will benefit from it even if nobody in the US does a thing about it. Other countries that produce oil from coal will import less oil or be able to export more, lowering the price for us as their demand goes down. So, objections in the US really don't matter. The only question is cost, this process has a long and successful track record. I think it is very promising.


5 posted on 07/20/2004 9:45:27 AM PDT by KellyAdmirer
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To: Baby Bear

Fortunately, if China diminishes its oil imports, that decreases worldwide demand for oil and lowers our oil price anyway.


7 posted on 07/20/2004 9:46:10 AM PDT by SedVictaCatoni
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To: Baby Bear
In the late 70s coal gasification and liquefication plants were planned for North Dakota. One gasification plant was built. My nephew is a Chem Eng and has worked in Beulah North Dakot for over 10 years.

The plant is profitable and he is in charge of the secondary products that also result. Ammonia from the stack gas is sold to fertilizer plants and CO2 s piped to Canadian oil fields for secondary recovery of oil, (pump gas into ground pump oil out.)

10 posted on 07/20/2004 9:50:20 AM PDT by Young Werther
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To: Baby Bear
This is old technology. De-polymerization would be more cost effective, and can be used with other things like agricultural waste. The Ag. waste test plant can produce a barrel for $15 per barrel. Probably can do coal for much less.
11 posted on 07/20/2004 9:51:42 AM PDT by D Rider
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To: Baby Bear
willing to forego periods of very cheap oil for more security

Coal to oil is more expensive. Oil has been cheap. Peak Easy says we will not run out of oil but that it will get more expensive. 4X

All these alternatives are more expensive. It is too late.

12 posted on 07/20/2004 9:53:48 AM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: Baby Bear
I've been posting about this for awhile. Here's another source for such technologies.

TOPICS News/Current Events Click to Add Topic KEYWORDS CHINA ENERGY Click to Add Keyword ------------------------------------------------------------------------ China plant to convert coal to motor fuel United Press International | 6/19/2002 | Hil Anderson Posted on 6/19/02 9:42 PM Pacific by Jewels1091 LOS ANGELES, June 19 (UPI) -- China's long-standing interest in using its plentiful coal to offset limited petroleum supplies took a step forward this week with the signing of an agreement with an American company for the development of the world's first plant that will convert coal directly into gasoline and diesel fuel. Hydrocarbon Technologies, a Utah subsidiary of Headwaters Incorporated, announced that the $2 billion project with Shenhua Group, China's largest coal company, would eventually produce 50,000 barrels of clean-burning gasoline and diesel fuel per day. "We are excited about the many opportunities created by this landmark agreement with Shenhua Group because we believe direct conversion of coal to liquid fuels is one of the most significant coal innovations in the last 50 years," said Headwaters Chairman Kirk Benson. "The HTI Coal Process is being considered for multiple projects and our technology is in a good position to be selected." According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, China is both the largest producer and the largest consumer of coal in the world and has been grappling with an oversupply situation caused by world consumption "declining significantly" during the past several years. The Chinese government has addressed the oversupply issue, and the resulting softening of world prices, by closing mines and looking at power plant projects and export opportunities. "China has expressed a strong interest in coal liquefaction technology, and would like to see liquid fuels based on coal substitute for some of its petroleum demand for transportation," the EIA said in a research note. China, which is also a net oil importer, is currently the third-largest consumer of oil in the world and is expected to overtake No. 2 Japan in the coming decade with a projected demand of more than 10 million barrels of oil per day by 2020. The HTI process breaks coal down into small molecules that when enriched with hydrogen, form oil molecules that can be refined into diesel and gasoline fuel. The coal liquification project launched Wednesday will be built 80 miles south of Baotou in Inner Mongolia, close to Shenhua's reserves in the Shengdong Coalfield. The plant will require about 4,300 tons of coal per day when it begins production in 2005. Shenhua, which owns a 15-percent stake in the HTI liquification technology, plans to build two other similar plants in the area. In addition to this initial facility, Shenhua Group, a 15-percent owner of the technology, intends to construct three additional direct coal liquefaction plants in the Shengdong Coalfield of China, which spans Shaanxi Province and Inner Mongolia. HTI President Theo Lee said the project would provide a long-term revenue stream for the company, and would also pay dividends to the United States in the form of a new source of domestic oil. "Shenhua Group has exhibited foresight in utilizing China's vast coal resources to provide the country's future energy needs in an efficient and environmentally safe manner," said Lee. "In addition to providing an export opportunity for United States goods and services, the...HTI Coal Process will provide the United States with a commercially proven clean fuels technology that supports this country's drive toward energy independence."

If the Administration would just start talking up such technologies, OPEC will open the spigots just to try and defeat it.

14 posted on 07/20/2004 10:05:54 AM PDT by techcor
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To: Baby Bear
"But coal is a highly polluting fuel when burned directly and also emits a lot of global-warming carbon dioxide."

It's the impurities in the coal that cause the polution, not the coal itself. Coal can be cleaned up, but the more effort that is invested in cleaning it, the higher its cost and the less attractive it is as an energy source.

ANY carbon-based fuel produces carbon dioxide, even his own body.

This guy writes like a naive little 12 year-old. He uses all the PC cliches but has little or no knowlege of thermal processes.

16 posted on 07/20/2004 10:11:27 AM PDT by nightdriver
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To: Baby Bear

Just put windmills in front of all the seats in the Senate.

That will fuel the entire eastern seaboard.


23 posted on 07/20/2004 11:31:51 AM PDT by adam_az (Call your State Republican Party office and VOLUNTEER!!!!)
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To: Baby Bear
Anything into Oil
by Brad Lemley
Gory refuse, from a Butterball Turkey plant in Carthage, Missouri, will no longer go to waste. Each day 200 tons of turkey offal will be carted to the first industrial-scale thermal depolymerization plant, recently completed in an adjacent lot, and be transformed into various useful products, including 600 barrels of light oil.

24 posted on 07/20/2004 11:52:54 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: Baby Bear
Eastman Chemical Co.
29 posted on 07/20/2004 12:33:10 PM PDT by decimon
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To: Baby Bear
The world is probably following an exactly optimal course.

Use the easily available fossil oil to build infrastructure, technology, and experience

As fossil oil becomes more difficult to extract and insufficient to meet needs, switch to coal, gas, and biomass to oil. At first just supplement oil then replace it.

Coal, gas, and Biomass are far larger and more distributed resources - should take the edge off competition for energy.

Thermal Deploymerization may be applied to coal. The patents claims to strip out the carbon as a powder leaving pure liquid hydrocarbons

www.thermaldepolmerization.org

Energy like all other commodities will settle back in long term trend toward zero cost - which is what drives rising living standards.

I predict in 50 years all people will be part of mainstream world economy and that economy will be 50 times bigger than it is now with energy use maybe 15 times bigger. Air Cars, Space travel, Life extension, 3D movies - etc

Long term - say past 100 years anything could happen - we (they:)) could all have personal fusion reactors.

Not to worry there is no way the world will run out of energy
45 posted on 08/02/2004 8:57:16 PM PDT by jet55
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To: Baby Bear

Tension rises as China scours the globe for energy
The Telegraph ^ | 19/11/2004 | Richard Spencer
Posted on 11/19/2004 7:34:07 PM PST by demlosers
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1284404/posts


46 posted on 11/21/2004 6:56:27 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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