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Just consider this a "thought experiment" with important historical precedents....
1 posted on 07/19/2004 11:36:01 AM PDT by betty boop
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To: Alamo-Girl; marron; unspun; Phaedrus; Heartlander; xzins; P-Marlowe; Thermopylae; Maceman; ...

A little food for thought....


2 posted on 07/19/2004 11:38:39 AM PDT by betty boop
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To: betty boop
It has been speculated that, if an observer could stand outside of “normal” four-dimensional space-time and take a view from a fifth, “time-like” dimension, the singularity of the “big bang” would appear as a “shock wave” propagating in 4D space-time. If this were true, the shock wave would require a medium of propagation.

Not only does the conclusion not follow, the search for a propagation medium has turned up negative in all experiments. The Michelson-Morley being one of the first.

4 posted on 07/19/2004 11:46:06 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: betty boop
BB:
Moreover, Newton believed that his laws of motion implied the generation of conditions of increasing disorder in the world, such that God would have to intervene periodically to rectify it in order to save it and keep it going:
Isaac Newton:
Every body continues in its state of rest, or of uniform motion in a right line, unless it is compelled to change that state by forces impressed upon it.
-- Principia Mathematica (1687) Laws of Motion I
One other quote from Newton (his public position, regardless of his private views):
I have not been able to discover the cause of those properties of gravity from phenomena, and I frame no hypotheses; for whatever is not deduced from the phenomena is to be called a hypothesis, and hypotheses, whether metaphysical or physical, whether of occult qualities or mechanical, have no place in experimental philosophy.
-- Letter to Robert Hooke (February 5, 1675)

10 posted on 07/19/2004 12:54:29 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (#26,303, never suspended, over 186 threads posted.)
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To: betty boop
argued that a perfect Creator cannot have failed to create a perfect creation.

I would say that the notion of perfect does as much harm as good to our understanding. "Perfect" as a static state is merely a mental construct. It doesn't exist. Any state of "perfect" only sets the stage for the next stage of "perfect", and so it goes, a moving target receding at the speed of... light? At the speed of thought. Perfect can only be dynamic, it is a continuous process.

Such a mental construct can't have any effect on whether God is or isn't continuously present in his creation. But a dynamic "perfect" is consistent with a God who is present in the here and now. "Perfect" as a moving target doesn't bother me, in my understanding at least, that is what creation looks like, a moving, living, changing, growing thing.

There is a beautiful order to creation, implying to me a well designed formula at the heart of it all, but there is also a kind of beautiful messiness about it, suggesting a creation that responds to damage and overcomes it. Which is to say, a creation that responds to the expected unexpected.

sensorium Dei could well refer to an infinite, universal creative field, “originally empty” of all content, designed to be the matrix and carrier of all possibilities for our universe...

The blank canvas where God will paint his masterpiece, with his perfect formulas, and his little human agents of messiness who fit themselves into any available space, respond to local anomalies and bridge them with their bodies and their lives. With God's help.

15 posted on 07/19/2004 2:31:13 PM PDT by marron
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To: betty boop

21 posted on 07/19/2004 3:12:50 PM PDT by bigjoesaddle (Shrug)
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To: betty boop

Thanks! Interesting article. I have read a bit of Newton's works, but had been unaware of his theocratic leanings.

Personally, I would argue that if God himself is absolute and fixed, then perfection is absolute and fixed.

If that was the case, we might as well blow the planet to hell and gone, and all, each of us, do ourselves in.

SO now I return to one of the things I have said frequently, it's not the BEING, but the DOING that seems to be important.

It is the DOING of things, and our constant attempts to do things better, and be better people, that makes it impossible to compress the universe into a singularity.

And interestingly enough, it makes the outcome still somewhat questionable.


26 posted on 07/19/2004 7:09:36 PM PDT by djf
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To: betty boop

YEC - read later


32 posted on 07/19/2004 10:34:13 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Secularization of America)
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To: betty boop
The Christian world is in dire need of another reformation to strip it down to the bare essentials of explaining only what science can't (yet).


BUMP

39 posted on 07/20/2004 2:48:18 AM PDT by tm22721 (In fac they)
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To: betty boop

This is a variation of Last Thursdayism. God is immanent in all of nature, and any change initiated will change the past along with the present, making the universe appear to obey consistent natural laws.


46 posted on 07/20/2004 8:42:20 AM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: betty boop

Newton's work inspired Kant.


50 posted on 07/20/2004 10:23:59 AM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: betty boop
The worldview of Leibnitz reflects an early strain of Deism; that of Kant, the Calvinist theological view of God as utterly transcendent majesty.

How many transcedences did Kant really have? If you draw up the limits of reason, and then transcendentalize it, where did he put the transcendent majesty?

Transcendence as Calvinist. Never heard of that before. From Pannenberg?

75 posted on 07/21/2004 7:10:30 AM PDT by cornelis
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To: betty boop
Ode To Sir Isaac Newton

I sat beneath the poets’ tree
for a moment of serenity
when sudden and ironically
Nature intervened

I felt the sun beat down on me
and in my heliocentric reality
I mocked the cosmic cosmetology
Again Nature intervened

A cloud relieved my anxiety
and allowed a moment for philosophy
so I pondered life’s cumulus duplicity
Once more Nature intervened.

Dead leaves ascended suddenly
Hues danced in the air harmoniously
The breath of Life has set them free
My conscience intervened

As I sat beneath this poets’ tree
As many a man had previously
I found calamity in my sanctimony
I learned of life, I learned of me
And discovered life’s true gravity
Because God has intervened.

86 posted on 07/21/2004 1:27:57 PM PDT by Heartlander (How odd it is that anyone should not see that all observation must be for or against some view)
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To: betty boop

B4L8r


105 posted on 07/22/2004 5:08:40 AM PDT by AFreeBird (your mileage may vary)
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