Posted on 07/16/2004 12:29:03 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud
His flight instructor seems to have a different view of him than what we see from modern media. (Of course he is older now and has to show that laid back attitude...but then again...pilots have to be somewhat laidback and not panic...so who knows.)
This from a writing posted by ravingnutter in post 13 of this thread:
Retired Col. Maury Udell, who trained Bush to fly the F-102, has no doubt his pupil was willing to go to Vietnam. Udell agreed that Bush was too inexperienced for Palace Alert, but he said the young man did become a good fighter pilot. "George got really good in air-to-air combat," he said.
Udell, now a 270-pound judo expert who describes himself as a "war-type guy," said Bush had an extraordinary memory and ability to process information. From Udell's perspective, Bush's ability to overcome his aristocratic schooling at Phillips Academy in Andover, Mass., and Yale University and mix with the other guardsmen was more impressive. "It is OK to get a good education, but some of those people are a little off the wall," he said. "I just wanted to make sure that he was in it for real."
Udell said he spent six hours a day for six months training Bush. And that's not all. "We would go to the bar and play dead bug just like everybody else," he said. When someone yelled "dead bug" the pilots would hit the floor and stick their hands and feet up in the air. "The last guy to do that has to buy the next round," Udell said, laughing. "He was really good with folks," he said. But the young pilot did not take insults well: "You can't put him down too easily. He's really tough. He'll fight you."
Chummy, have you heard he was a BIG VietNam War Hero too? He was WOUNDED, 3 times, and he got 3 purple hearts. WOW!!! He is a WAR HERO! What are the rest of the guys who were over there and REALLY got wounded? Chopped Liver?
Why don't we have anybody running for top office who served in the Marines or the Infantry in Viet Nam during the Viet Nam War?
I have a theory about that, and I mean this with the highest upon highest of respect...
I'm sure that there were plenty of candidates...but they likely died while giving the ultimate sacrifice--themselves, their lives, their futures, in battle, in service to our country.
I really don't know how to adequately say that, without looking mean, or mean-spirited. There is something lost in the translation to the written word, and I am no literary expert.
I would much rather focus on what both candidates have done SINCE then. There have clearly been CICs who did not serve in combat, or in military, so that is not a disqualifying factor. What has each man done? With whom do I more relate? Which of the two do I trust to tell the truth? Which of the two do I trust to do what is right, damn the political fallout? Who do I trust to create an environment in which I can work, and flourish? Who do I trust to help keep a missile out of my a--, by putting one in the terrorists?
President George Walker Bush, in what I hope will be the result in November--a landslide.
Well, uh.... ok... I guess....
But it's a rather unorthodox training regimen.
Perhaps it's best that I remain skeptical of his aptitude.
"Dead bug" just doesn't seem the proper methodology to give our fighter pilots the edge over the enemy.
Well put.
I saw the other day where someone tried to compare Edward lacking in foreign policy to Bush pre-POTUS.
But that does not work...because as Gov. here in Texas....he dealt with issues tied to Mexico quite a bit.
Not to mention the management experience.
Then there is all the work he did on his dad's campaign and some other stuff that he did for his dad as well.
Bush had some real good experience.
Personally, I don't feel like talking about Bush's Guard or Kerry's Navy experience as a reason for being President.
The only reason some of us are talking about his is because the media is trying to make it an issue and lie.
If being President was based on what someone did in the Service in the late 60's or early 70's....I would vote for a Special Forces A Detatchment Commander or a Navy ship Capt. Both managed extreme environments...both dealt quite a bit with foreign individuals. Green Berets basically reconstituted villages.
BUT THAT'S NOT what the Presidency is to be based on.
SO I WILL TAKE BUSH'S LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE over Kerry's non leadership experience.
IF KERRY WANTS TO QUESTION BUSH'S Military service...perhaps he should look at the fact that Bush is the War Time Commander of the best military on earth and has been doing that for a couple of years now. I think that trumps Kerry's couple of months on a small boat.
I have personally seen that game....and thank goodness its just a game...cause it would send a strange message (ironic one).
Personally, I admire the Coin game more.
Less energy spent. I am not going to a watering hole to do exercises.
ABproud, you must be reading my mind!
I was just posting the same thing, on a linked thread from February...I've pasted it below...it's from a thread called "Dubya's Wing Men" on FreeRepublic...the first line is in reference to one of the guys talking about how people had died trying to fly those planes, at the same time Dubya was there.
"Thank you for your service, Mr. President."
Mega HOORAH Dittoes, Mr. President.
We really know that the reason you don't trumpet your service at every opportunity is because you don't have to--you've been very busy trying to do what is right, and your father's campaign, the Texas Rangers, the State of Texas, and many of the American people know it...and thank you for it.
That's why, Mr. President, in this day of plenty and excess, people still volunteer to serve in our Armed Forces, at a time of war. I believe that it is in no small reason, due to the fact that you are a great Commander-in-Chief, who takes his office seriously and with honor--JUST AS YOU PROMISED US.
Mr. President, may we--the American people--not let you down in November. And sir, on the occassion of your second inaugural ceremony, I will be IN Washington, D.C. IN PERSON to watch it. (I live in Los Angeles, CA)
God bless you, President Bush, and may God bless America--and those who defend her.
So what is Kerry trying to say about the Guard? The wanna be CIC is pretty ignorant about the importance of the Guard.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_news_article1092.html
US Air National Guard 107th Fighter Squadron pilots return from Iraq
Six F-16 pilots from the Air National Guard's 107th Fighter Squadron returned to their Selfridge ANGB home base after three months of combat operations in Iraq. The 107th FS deployed to Kirkuk Air Base in Iraq on February 27th, in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, and was the first F-16 unit to be based in Iraq. The unit flew mainly CAS and Recce missions.
The 107th deployed more than 200 personnel to Iraq over the past three months, marking the unit's largest deployment since the Korean War. Seventy other unit members are also scheduled to return.
The pilots from the 107th Fighter Squadron were involved in the recent battles in Iraq in Fallujah and Najaf, flying close air support (CAS) for Army and Marine ground troops, and Reconnaissance missions using the Theater Airborne Reconnaissance System (TARS). They logged more than 2,000 combat hours in over 800 combat missions.
Good job! Any time we can debunk ANY of the lies about our dear President, it's great!! I'm SO tired of the commie-libs pretending my President "tried to get out of serving"! Gag!! Thank you for launching this missle at one of their cherished lies!!
I always found games to be an adolescent distraction from more serious appreciation of alcoholic refreshments.
Just to clarify, I meant no disrespect to either the Navy or the Coast Guard. My point was that, justifiably or not, the popular belief was that chances of facing combat in Vietnam were less in those services than in the infantry, so they had an oversupply of volunteers during the peak years of the war, and were regarded as havens from the draft "as good as" National Guard service for that purpose. If somebody like Kerry wanted to make sure he would see combat, he would have sought a commission in the Marines or the Army, rather than the Navy.
51 - "Perhaps he simply didn't have the aptitude to fly the more sophisticated aircraft that were being used.
He didn't exactly set any records for high academic achievement when he he was in school, ya know."
You really don't have a clue, do you. The best pilots in the world are Israeli Enlisted Men.
Mainly, in Vietnam, the F102 had no mission, and kept falling out of the sky - it was an old tired plane, designed to INTERCEPT russian prop Bombers, of the 1950's. It was designed to fly up high, and fast. Carried no bombs, only missiles and rockets, and to knock out fleets of Russian bombers with its nuclear missiles.
It was a joke in Vietnam - (one of the many ) sent to protect Saigon against North Vietnamese Bomber attack.
51 - I forgot - the F102 was not designed to do dog fights with MIGS - it just was not that manuverable, and would have been shot down.
If I were deploying troops, I would make sure that ALL shared the same level of risk. That way I wouldn't have all my shirkers and cowards bunched up in the same place. Ultimately I'd need them anyway, and they wouldn't have anybody around them in their units to urge them on. They'd all die horrible deaths at the hands of the enemy.
Why Kennedy and Johnson elected to keep the reserve forces "way in the rear" and "undeployable" is one of the mysteries of the ages.
Maybe it was because they were stupid and venal.
.
JOHN KERRY = Enemy of Vietnam Vets
http://www.TheAlamoFILM.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1320
.
"He didn't exactly set any records for high academic achievement when he he was in school, ya know."
But his grades were better that Al Gores, who flunked out of one graduate school and was kicked out of another.
And the Dems said he was the intellectual in the race!
Wait. Kerry has both a Bronze and a Silver Star?
where did you get your info? Never seen ANY reports or photos of 102's outside states. There were air battles fought and the enemy was always intercepted by 105's or F-4's.
This has been out there some time now. This man needs to be interviewed. The fact remains while they demean Bush for going into the National Guard-look at what position he took in the Guard, it was flying a very dangerous aircraft. That in itself doesn't really support the claim he was so concerned about safety.
Actually, the F-102s were used in Vietnam in Danang, but they were eventually phased out and put out of service. But there were those aircraft and airmen serving in Vietnam. Bush didn't have the flight hours at the time he asked about the program to go to Vietnam.
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