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AP Article shows that Bush asked about Vietnam pilot slot. (Kerry's bogus claims refuted-February 8
San Diego Union Tribune ^ | February 8, 2004

Posted on 07/16/2004 12:29:03 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud

Seems that Kerry's claims that Bush joined the Air Guard to dodge Vietnam are bogus. The proof of this is at the tail end of this AP Article. Last Paragraph. I have posted this since it seems the Liberal AP is trying to help John Kerry in his bogus claims. The writer of the story is Benac, a liberal AP writer/editor.-

...Udell says Bush asked about a program under which National Guard pilots were assigned to Vietnam, but Udell told him he wasn't eligible because he was certified on the F-102, which the military was phasing out.

Echoes of Vietnam in presidential campaign 35 years later

By Nancy Benac ASSOCIATED PRESS 11:01 p.m. February 8, 2004

WASHINGTON – They were two years apart, these two Yale boys, these sons of privilege, and so the moment of truth came first for John Kerry, later for George W. Bush. Each faced the same life-changing question as did so many others of their generation: what to do about Vietnam.

Kerry, part of the class of 1966, signed on with the Navy late in 1965, then had months to ponder his decision before actually entering officer candidate school after graduation. The war, his decision, his doubts, all hung over him as he spoke at commencement the following June.

"What was an excess of isolationism has become an excess of interventionism," he told fellow students. He had to know his life was set on a course for Vietnam.

For Bush, a member of the class of 1968, his last year in college seemed to signal the end of a time of innocence.

"The gravity of history was beginning to descend in a horrifying and disruptive way," he wrote in his 1999 biography. "By the time the ball dropped in Times Square to welcome 1968, the situation in Vietnam had escalated from a conflict to a raging war. Every night the newscast included a body count."

Bush debated his options over Christmas break back home in Houston, took a pilot aptitude test after he got back to school in January, and chose the National Guard. He would fly planes like his father did in World War II, but he had to know the odds of going to Vietnam were low.

Nearly 40 years later, the choices made by these two young men are reverberating through the presidential campaign as part of a larger debate over patriotism, leadership, duty, character. Each man is defined in part by the path he chose, and by the level of commitment he demonstrated along the way.

"We are all hostage to decisions we made in the past," said Douglas Brinkley, a history professor at the University of New Orleans who has written a book about Kerry's war years. "The bottom line is Kerry went and Bush didn't and it's an uncomfortable fact for a president" who has so eagerly wrapped himself in the flag as commander in chief.

Yet Brinkley said the two-year age difference between Kerry and Bush is an important backdrop to the courses they set.

In 1965, when Kerry decided to enlist, students "still saw the world in black and white," Brinkley said, and "not serving wasn't really an option" for the son of a foreign service officer. "His big decision was which branch of the military to join," said Brinkley. "Did he want to go to Vietnam? No. But how could he live with himself if he finagled his way out of his duty?"

By the time Bush joined the guard in 1968, Brinkley said, the horrors of Vietnam were playing out nightly on television and sentiment against the war was hardening. "By 1968, smart kids weren't going. It became OK not to go. ... So Bush looked for a way not to go," he said.

"If he had been the class of '66, it may have been different for George W. Bush."

Bush spoke about his decision to serve in the National Guard in an interview Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press," saying, "I put in my time, proudly so. I would be careful to not denigrate the Guard. It's fine to go after me, which I expect the other side will do. I wouldn't denigrate service to the Guard, though."

Wesley Clark, a retired four-star general, is part of the campaign debate over military service, too, as he tries to keep his Democratic presidential campaign alive.

Clark, who viewed the military as a path of opportunity for a bright, middle-class kid from Arkansas, graduated first in his class at West Point in 1966, then headed off to Oxford on a Rhodes scholarship. He wrapped up his studies there in two years rather than three so he could get to Vietnam quicker, and came home with a Silver Star for heroism.

Clark still has scars on his shoulder, hip and leg, and his right index finger was shortened by a bullet during a firefight with the Viet Cong.

Lately, the campaign discussion has repeatedly turned to the candidates' military histories, with all sides faulting the others for exploiting the issue.

Neither Kerry nor Clark have made a point of personally raising Bush's military record on the campaign trail, but both say when asked that legitimate questions have been raised about the Bush record.

"It's almost like an inverted time warp," said Stanley Renshon, a political scientist and psychoanalyst at the City University of New York. "The point of it is that, 'I'm a war hero and you're not.' And the implication is that because you're a war hero, that gives you a special standing to talk about war and strategy. But it doesn't follow."

Hardly a speech goes by in which Kerry, a decorated war hero, does not invoke Vietnam and its legacy. Vietnam buddies travel with his campaign entourage and appear in his ads. At an emotional appearance just before Kerry's huge victory in the Iowa caucuses, he was reunited with a serviceman whose life he had saved as the skipper of a river patrol boat.

Kerry was awarded the Bronze Star for that rescue, less than a month after earning a Silver Star for beaching his boat and jumping ashore to chase down and kill a guerrilla who had a rocket launcher pointed at the Americans. After being awarded three Purple Hearts for minor injuries, Kerry's request for reassignment stateside six months early was granted.

His campaign mantra, "Bring it on," evokes the same never-back-down approach he had evinced in battle.

"The entire heart and soul of John Kerry's personna is Vietnam," said Brinkley. "What happened to him is so seared into his being that it's almost like rings in an old redwood tree."

Kerry's fierce criticism of the war upon his return to America did not sit well with some veterans, and still doesn't.

As an anti-war leader, he asserted in testimony to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "raped, cut off ears, cut off heads ... randomly shot at civilians ... poisoned food stocks" and committed other atrocities he later acknowledged he did not witness.

Bush, for his part, harked back to his fighter-pilot training last year when he climbed into a flight suit and flew in a Navy jet to land on an aircraft carrier off the California coast. He emerged from the plane with the swagger of a top-gun pilot, cradling his helmet under his arm, and shouted, "Yes I flew it!" to those on deck.

Now, he is facing a new round of questions about his guard service on issues that first came up during the 2000 campaign:

–Whether family connections helped him get into the Texas Air National Guard when there were waiting lists for what was seen as an easy billet. Bush says no one in his family pulled strings and that he got in because others didn't want to commit to the almost two years of active duty required for fighter pilot training.

–Whether he showed up for duty while assigned to guard units in Alabama, where he worked on a political campaign in 1972. Military records show no evidence he reported for duty. "There may be no evidence, but I did report," Bush told NBC, adding, "Otherwise, I wouldn't have been honorably discharged."

–Why he was allowed to end guard duty about six months early to attend Harvard Business School. Bush said on NBC he had "worked it out with the military. And I'm just telling you, I did my duty."

Maurice Udell, one of Bush's flight instructors at Ellington Air Force Base in Texas, remembers Bush as a standout student. "I'd rank him in the top 5 percent," says Udell, now 73 and retired. He rejects the notion that Bush got preferential treatment or that there was anything improper about his time in Alabama or in going to Harvard before his six-year guard commitment had ended.

"I was really a tough instructor but I was fair with him," Udell said, remembering Bush for his excellent memory and standout sense of humor. "I'd give him hell about something and he'd pop a joke and get you laughing and just break up the whole situation."

Udell says Bush asked about a program under which National Guard pilots were assigned to Vietnam, but Udell told him he wasn't eligible because he was certified on the F-102, which the military was phasing out.

Find this article at: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20040208-2301-vietnamechoes.html


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bush; kerrylies; militaryrecord; nationalguard
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To: ArmyBratproud
You're right and re: Udell told him he wasn't eligible because he was certified on the F-102, which the military was phasing out. The 102 is an interceptor, and had no role in the conflict.

DTOM

41 posted on 07/16/2004 1:27:09 PM PDT by Ace's Dad ("There are more important things: Friendship, Bravery...")
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To: Ace's Dad
Here's another article/thread from February on the issue:

Ex-pilot says Bush put in for Vietnam: Bush volunteered for combat, was rejected...

February 13, 2004

A former senior Virginia Air National Guard commander, who served with George W. Bush in the Texas Air Guard, says Bush volunteered for Vietnam combat service but was turned down because he did not have the required flight experience.

~snip~

42 posted on 07/16/2004 1:35:46 PM PDT by cyncooper ("We will fear no evil...And we will prevail")
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To: Ace's Dad
F-102s were in Vietnam. They were there to stop any air attack from North Vietnam. There never was an attack.
43 posted on 07/16/2004 1:38:07 PM PDT by cayuga
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To: cyncooper

I contend this article should have been linked on one of those threads"

Hey, I liked your thread on the AP case...but I was not referring to the case as per my reason of this thread.
I posted it to get the info out there to those who have not seen it. I would have posted it on the AP case threads...but I was not talking about those cases....and ..it seems that too many people get ticked off when some one post links from articles to their threads.
I think some are missing the point of why I posted this article.


44 posted on 07/16/2004 1:39:39 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud
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To: ArmyBratproud

You'll like my link at 42. More for your files.


45 posted on 07/16/2004 1:41:07 PM PDT by cyncooper ("We will fear no evil...And we will prevail")
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To: cyncooper

Cool. I had not seen that article. Thanks for posting it.
I'd say post a thread devoted your article...but from what you have said so far....it seems that is the wrong thing to do.

Still, good info that I did no know.


46 posted on 07/16/2004 1:44:05 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud
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To: ArmyBratproud

That article is a thread that could be bumped. I don't think there was an impression here on FR that GWB had dodged the draft and it seemed to me that most here knew that he had volunteered for Vietnam, hence my puzzlement over bringing it up as if there was confusion here about it.

But no matter. It's handy to have the articles filed away for the dims that DO bring up the story.


47 posted on 07/16/2004 1:48:36 PM PDT by cyncooper ("We will fear no evil...And we will prevail")
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To: cyncooper

thanks.
I was thinking about maybe doing one of those yahoo group websites that talk about all the evidence that the media is ignoring on this. Maybe post all the article I could find on it. Give credit to all the people who supply each bit of info.
But Free Republic already covers most of it. Besides, what would I call it....."Bush Served" ?
Not to mention....I would probably get sued by the AP or somebody. HMMMMMMM, maybe that website is not such a bad idea...


48 posted on 07/16/2004 1:50:10 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud
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To: no dems

Do your duty then. Send this information to all the RATs that you know and to people that you don't know how they will vote.

I can't wait to send stuff like this to people I can't stand anyway.

Instead of complaining, why don't you:
Send to relatives
Send to friends
Send to enemies
Post on other Web sites.
Send to newspapers


49 posted on 07/16/2004 1:51:01 PM PDT by BushisTheMan
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To: cayuga

and, no need to call up the reserves, was my point..


50 posted on 07/16/2004 1:52:54 PM PDT by Ace's Dad ("There are more important things: Friendship, Bravery...")
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To: ArmyBratproud
Looks like Bush tried to go to Vietnam.
Not that he would not be brave for being assigned elsewhere.
The fact that he would fly an f-102 makes him a braver man than most. Those things were not the most reliable birds.

I see no reason to question his courage.
Perhaps he simply didn't have the aptitude to fly the more sophisticated aircraft that were being used.
He didn't exactly set any records for high academic achievement when he he was in school, ya know.

51 posted on 07/16/2004 1:54:47 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: BushisTheMan

In all fairness.....
Just ranting is doing the duty. It points out the injustice of the info be covered up and not reported.
Voting in November will be the real duty. And I am sure that Nodems has that covered.
I imagine nodems is already sending info to people.....hence taking part on FR.


52 posted on 07/16/2004 1:56:52 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud
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To: Chummy

I read somewhere that his "Viet Nam service" is going to be the "theme" of the Demo convention. I can hardly wait. (Is there anyone left that is unaware that John Kerry was in Viet Nam with a photographer?)


53 posted on 07/16/2004 2:00:59 PM PDT by Winfield
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To: ArmyBratproud

I'm a sportswriter for a major daily newspaper. We usually write the item least important to us at the end of the story, a "throwaway" paragraph that we would like to get in - but one that is not an imperative (or, something we know we should write, but don't especially want to be included in the story. Then, if it's cut for space purposes, and we're asked about it, we can say that we did write it). The writer here saved the paragraph that portrays Bush in a favorable light until the end. It's in an easy spot for a biased copy editor to cut for a number of reasons he could devise, or for an objective editor to cut for space reasons.


54 posted on 07/16/2004 2:01:38 PM PDT by line drive to right
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To: Chummy

I read somewhere that his "Viet Nam service" is going to be the "theme" of the Demo convention. I can hardly wait. (Is there anyone left that is unaware that John Kerry was in Viet Nam with a photographer?)


55 posted on 07/16/2004 2:02:40 PM PDT by Winfield
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To: Willie Green

I see no reason to question his courage."

That was my point exactly. That's why I mentioned that he was brave no matter where he served. I feel that way about all troops. But I would still like to point out the courage it takes to decide to take off in an f-102.

As far as his aptitude...It seems that it is pretty dang high. I know some if his grades were like the rest of us...but I recall reading that his test scores were pretty high.
I don't suppose anyone knows of any of those articles....


56 posted on 07/16/2004 2:04:13 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud
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To: ArmyBratproud

Here's aonther thread that should be linked.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1081371/posts


57 posted on 07/16/2004 2:07:17 PM PDT by Samwise (John Kerry: Hair today, gone tomorrow!)
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To: line drive to right

SPORTSWRITER??????

Oh, your living a lot of folks dream!

So are all the rumors about all the benefits (tickets, game trips, stuff) that sportswriters get true?

So what did you think of the Horns not showing up for their second place trophy at Omaha?!
feel free to privat reply...and let me know where to find your writings (what paper).


58 posted on 07/16/2004 2:08:30 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud
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To: ArmyBratproud

All of these revelations of information for our side, to prove what many of us already know--that President Bush and company are honorable), are like a certain honorable (in proper context) urge which shall not be named in mixed company...

Once experienced, more is wanted. I want more of this stuff. I ESPECIALLY want to see the quote where Dubya said (allegedly long before he ran for POTUS),

"Sitting behind that cockpit, with those afterburners blowing, I didn't feel like I got out of anything..."

Of course, W doesn't need to trumpet this, like Flipper does in every sentence with his Vietnam fortnight. Perhaps that's because...well, W's been hard at work, governing Texas and leading our country. Flurch?....uh, did you know he served in Vietnam?


59 posted on 07/16/2004 2:13:49 PM PDT by Christian4Bush (I approve this message: character and integrity matter. Bush/Cheney '04)
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To: ArmyBratproud
As far as his aptitude...It seems that it is pretty dang high. I know some if his grades were like the rest of us...but I recall reading that his test scores were pretty high.

I don't know...
"Aptitude" ecompasses attitudes that go beyond getting the correct answer on a test.
I've always been led to believe that it was necessary for fighter pilots to be aggressively competitive in order to survive. Dubya doesn't impress me as having that type of personality. He's more laid-back, easy-going, wise-cracking, etc. He just seems to lack the focused intensity to go head-to-head with a Mig. Perhaps it was simply better for everybody if he just did his part in the reserves.

60 posted on 07/16/2004 2:16:30 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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