Posted on 07/09/2004 9:19:09 AM PDT by tpaine
This website very insidiously interprets our US Constitution in a pro-Statist manner. IE --- "The Bill of Rights did not apply to the states."
"The Bill of Rights was understood, at its ratification, to be a bar on the actions of the federal government.
Many people today find this to be an incredible fact. The fact is, prior to incorporation, discussed below, the Bill of Rights did not apply to the states."
It is incredible, seeing the author completely ignores the supremacy clause in Art. VI.
He then goes on to bash our 2nd Amendment:
"Recognizing that the need to arm the populace as a militia is no longer of much concern, but also realizing that firearms are a part of our history and culture and are used by many for both personal defense and sport, this site has proposed a new 2nd Amendment - an amendment to replace the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution. This proposed text is offered as a way to spark discussion of the topic.
Section 1. The second article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.
Section 2. The right of the people to keep arms reasonable for hunting, sport, collecting, and personal defense shall not be infringed.
Section 3. Restrictions of arms must be found to be reasonable under Section 2 by a two-thirds vote of Congress in two consecutive sessions of Congress before they can be forwarded to the President for approval.
This proposed amendment is a truer representation of how our society views our freedom to bear arms. Because "reasonableness" can be far too elastic, the two-Congress restriction requires that two Congresses in a row pass the same bill - this allows both thoughtful reflection and for the opinions of the people, to be expressed between these votes, to be heard (both at the ballot box and in general). It is an unusual, but not unprecedented, way of passing legislation.
Finally, the courts would have the ultimate authority in determining if a restriction is not reasonable, providing a final layer of protection (after the two pairs of debate in the House and Senate and the President's own agreement). The militia is removed from the equation, greatly clarifying the purpose of the amendment.
Historical note: in Section 2, the "collecting" clause was added, and Section 3 is a replacement for "The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation" after concerns over "reasonableness" were examined more fully.
Reasonable restrictions do seem to be the way to go, acknowledging the Amendment, but molding it, as we've done with much of the Constitution.
After all, we have freedom of speech in the United States, but you are not truly free to say whatever you wish. You cannot incite violence without consequence; you cannot libel someone without consequence; you cannot shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater without consequence. Why cannot gun ownership by similarly regulated without violating the Constitution?
The trick is finding that balance between freedom and reasonable regulation. Gun ownership is indeed a right - but it is also a grand responsibility. With responsibility comes the interests of society to ensure that guns are used safely and are used by those with proper training and licensing. If we can agree on this simple premise, it should not be too difficult to work out the details and find a proper compromise."
Know you enemy.. This man Steve Mount is NOT a friend of our Constitution.
(Excerpt) Read more at usconstitution.net ...
here's a recap of the essence of why you are wrong:
A state also has the power to outlaw prostitution. - H.Akston
"No hugh" - tpaine
You are reduced to claiming that no state can outlaw prostitution! - H.Akston
"That is a constitutional fact." - tpaine
West Virginia has outlawed prostitution. - H.Akston
West Virginia Code:
§61-8-5. (b) Any person who shall engage in prostitution, ... shall, upon conviction for the first offense under this section, be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of not less than sixty days nor more than six months, and by a fine of not less than fifty dollars and not to exceed one hundred dollars; and upon conviction for the second offense ... a fine of not less than one hundred dollars and not to exceed two hundred fifty dollars, and upon conviction for any subsequent offense ...not less than one year nor more than three years.
"The State of Va gets its power to write criminal law from its 'police power', hughie. " - tpaine
"There are no constitutional exceptions" - tpaine
WVa's police power comes from the WV Constitution. - H.Akston, teacher of tpaine.
West Virginia Constitution:
"Among the powers so reserved to the states is the exclusive regulation of their own internal government and police;" - Article I-2
http://www.terranova.net/Sheriffs-Report/
The owner of an county-wide escort business run out of a home on Big Pine Key pled guilty May 27th to four misdemeanor charges and two felony charges relating to his occupation. 48 year old Michael Knezevich, owner of the Heavenly Bodies Escort Service, was arrested April 14th after he was caught during a prostitution sting in Marathon. He was charged with forcing a person to become a prostitute, deriving support from the proceeds of prostitution, offering to procure a person for the purpose of prostitution and with transporting a person for the purpose of prostitution. Sheriff's detectives with the Special Investigations Division were investigating a number of complaints from citizens about the escort service operated by Knezevich, and other escort businesses operating in the County. On April 28th, detectives served a search warrant at his home on Lobstertail Road on Big Pine Key. They found evidence that he was operating the escort service from that location, and found recording devices set up in several areas where it appears he may have been video taping sexual encounters without the knowledge of his partners. They also found two firearms in the house. At the time, Knezevich had a restraining order filed against him which prohibited him from possessing firearms, so he was charged with contempt of court and the guns were seized. He appeared in court on May 27th and pled guilty to a total of four misdemeanor charges and two felony charges. He was sentenced to 10 days in the county jail and received four years of probation. As a part of the plea agreement, he must also sell his home and move out of the county within 90 days. One of the conditions of his probation is that he not engage in any type of escort business and that he have no contact with any victims or witnesses in the cases in question.
"Such laws [outlawing prostitution] cannot be enforced without violations of other individual rights." - tpaine
Nonsense. "Such laws" were enforced in Monroe County WVA with due process of law and all individual rights were protected.
VA, WV, NC, GA, AL, MI, FL, MD, PA, NY, MA, ME, VT, NH, RI, DE, NJ IL, IA, IN, KY, TN, OH, MI, UT, WA, CA, TX and SC have all outlawed prostitution, which means they have made prostitution illegal in all or most of their counties. It doesn't mean they have "regulated" it. "Regulating" something means you tolerate the practice, but control it. Making something illegal, that is "outlawing" it, means you don't tolerate it at all. Many states have outlawed prostitution, constitutionally and legally.
How pitiful. You are reduced to idiotically reposting your failed positions.
Pull your head out of where your blue nose has been.
You have yet to form a coherent response to that post. Why should I abandon it? It perfectly refutes your mindless flails.
Your post #456 was refuted at #458.
I have shown that a State can outlaw prostitution.
You have not shown that a state can not outlaw prostitution.
Show me evidence. It can be a trial citation, law, etc.. Anything - that proves your contention that a state can not outlaw prostitution. Show me something that relies not on your subjective misguided interpretation of an out-of-context quotation, not on your twisted perversion of the 10th Amendment, but something that will stand by itself. I need to see something that shows that a State can not outlaw prostitution. If you can do that, I'll happily concede that both of us are right, because I know I'm right. Being right is a good feeling. I want you to have that good feeling. It's bound to be at least a little embarassing for you to continue getting so beat up here. It's even starting to be less fun for me to do it. (But I'm still a long way from not enjoying it.)
H.Akston wrote:
I have shown that a State can outlaw prostitution.
You have not shown that a state can not outlaw prostitution.
______________________________________
No, you have shown that a State can reasonably regulate the public & commercial aspects of using sex for personal gain between consenting adults.
You have not shown that a state can 'outlaw/prohibit' the private aspects of using sex for personal gain between consenting adults..
"You have not shown that a state can 'outlaw/prohibit' the private aspects of using sex for personal gain between consenting adults.. "
Why confuse the issue with that cluster of weasel words you've strung together, when you deny that a State can outlaw prostitution?
You're asking me to clintonize, and I'd prefer not to. I'm sticking with the actual words you dispute. You denied a state can outlaw prostitution, and so I proved that a state can and does, and proved you to be as wrong as bill clinton.
H.Akston wrote:
You denied a state can outlaw
prostitution, --
______________________________________
States have no constitutional power to decree a prohibition on 'prostitution', or any other type of consensual sexual act between adults.
States have no constitutional power to decree a prohibition on 'assault weapons'.
States have no constitutional power to decree a prohibition on 'mind altering substances'.
States have no constitutional power to decree a prohibition on 'tobacco', or any other type of dangerous to smoke or ingest substance.
States have no constitutional power to decree fiat 'prohibitions', period.
Our rights to life, liberty, & property are not to be infringed upon without due process.
-- And the full scope of the liberty guaranteed by Due Process --;
-- "is a rational continuum which, broadly speaking, includes a freedom from all substantial arbitrary impositions and purposeless restraints"
ya gotta show me something. I showed you laws, and examples of enforcement, and constitutional backup.
You just rant.
I insist that my pupils do their homework. This gets an F+.
WV has outlawed prostitution.
Outlawing prostitution wasn't an "arbitrary imposition or purposeless restraint", for WV.
Prove that it was, if you think it was done in WV without due process, and then take'em to court!
"No, you have shown that a State can reasonably regulate the public & commercial aspects of using sex for personal gain between consenting adults.
"
Where in the world do you get these weasel words? Stop snivelling and quibbling. Take your thumb out of your mouth.
If you read the section from West Virginia's code I posted, you'll see the word "prostitution", and you'll see that it is illegal, you clown.
You denied that a state can outlaw prostitution, but provided no proof at all.
H.Akston wrote:
You denied a state can outlaw
prostitution, --
______________________________________
States have no constitutional power to decree a prohibition on 'prostitution', or any other type of consensual sexual act between adults.
States have no constitutional power to decree a prohibition on 'assault weapons'.
States have no constitutional power to decree fiat 'prohibitions', period.
Our rights to life, liberty, & property are not to be infringed upon without due process.
-- And the full scope of the liberty guaranteed by Due Process --;
-- "is a rational continuum which, broadly speaking, includes a freedom from all substantial arbitrary impositions and purposeless restraints"
469 tpaine
______________________________________
WV has outlawed prostitution.
Outlawing prostitution wasn't an "arbitrary imposition or purposeless restraint", for WV.
471 hugie
_____________________________________
WV has reasonably regulated the public & commercial aspects of prostitution.
I have no problems with their laws, as enforced.
"I have no problems with their [WV] laws, as enforced."
You finally came around to seeing that WV has outlawed prostitution. You pass my course with a D+
Dream on hughie. You're only fooling yourself.
"I have no problems with their [WV] laws, as enforced." - tpaine
West Virginia Code:
§61-8-5. (b) Any person who shall engage in prostitution, ... shall, upon conviction for the first offense under this section, be punished by imprisonment in the county jail...
Sounds like they're doing more than "regulating" prostitution.
What's the legal definition of 'prostitution' under that code?
Good grief. Next you'll be asking the definition of "definition".
Sorry, there's no worming your way out of this one.
As I said before, in your world, you think that if a law can be broken without getting caught, then the law doesn't prohibit the action. Utter nonsense; i.e. worming.
There are ways to catch prostitution, and put a person in jail for it, while preserving all his/her constitutional rights.
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